Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance

Tue Apr 26 23:11:31 EDT 2016

No, only at the feedpoint.  Once I get the resistors changed I’ll try some tests with the feedline.

Thanks for all the ideas. This thing may work yet!

Ken K6MR

From: Bob K6UJ<mailto:k6uj at pacbell.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 19:04
To: topband at contesting.com<mailto:topband at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance

Ken,

I am thinking along the lines as Gregg.  Try disconnecting the feedline
at the antenna and compare noise levels.
Do you have a choke on both ends of the feedline ?

Bob
K6UJ

On 4/26/16 6:00 PM, Ken K6MR wrote:
> Good idea Gregg. I suspect there may be some common mode problems.
>
> I did discover one problem thanks to questions from K6UJ: the resistors on the loops need to be non-inductive and the ones I installed are not. Dumb error on my part. When I lower the antenna to change the resistors I will be able to get to the feedline connector. So that is something I can do easily.  I also have more ferrites so I may add some additional feedline chokes since I have to cut the feedline loose from the mast anyway.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken K6MR
>
>
>
> From: Gregg W6IZT<mailto:gregg.w6izt1 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 17:34
> To: topband at contesting.com<mailto:topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
>
> Ken:
>
> No directivity and noisier than the TX vertical. Perhaps you should look at these as two separate observations. Try disconnecting the feedline at the antenna. What is the noise level with the antenna disconnected and the pre-amp gain adjusted for 35-40 dB?
>
> 73
> Gregg
> W6IZT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ken K6MR
> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 6:11 PM
> To: Clive GM3POI <gm3poi2 at btinternet.com>; topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
>
> No it does not and that’s a good point. I’m pretty sure the vertical 800 feet away is not much of an issue, but the tower within 150’ could be a problem. The model is going to be difficult because there are four yagis on the tower.  Good project for a rainy day.
> I have one other tower about 350’ away that also has multiple yagis but hopefully that also is far enough.
>
> The other option is to move it to one of the other towers and change to horizontal polarization and up higher. N4IS seems to prefer that orientation. At the moment the performance is so poor that I’m thinking I did something wrong in the assembly.
>
> Ken K6MR
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Clive GM3POI<mailto:gm3poi2 at btinternet.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 15:03
> To: 'Ken K6MR'<mailto:k6mr at outlook.com>
> Subject: RE: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
>
> on Locked="
> Ken, When you say the EZnec model looks great does that include the other towers.? If not include them and reassess.
> 73 Clive GM3POI
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ken K6MR
> Sent: 23 April 2016 18:38
> To: Bob K6UJ; topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Waller Flag construction and performance
>
> Let’s start here and see how it goes. If someone complains we’ll take it off line. Nothing like a public discussion to bring out the best ideas.  I changed the subject line so the discussion will make sense.
>
> The 160 transmit vertical is about 800’ away. There is an 80’ tower with various higher band yagis on it about 150’ away.
>
> My loop size is 12’ high, 10’ wide. 4’ between loops.  Vertical loops. The boom is 50’ high. The tower is near the house, but single story house so the boom is 35’ above the roof.
>
> The EZNec model looks great (of course). The gain models a bit low, but the RDF and gain test are in the right ranges. Right now the big problem is no directivity and it is actually noisier than the vertical. I have the adjustable gain pre-amp from DXE (KD9SV design) in the shack.
>
> So that’s the background. Common mode problems would indeed be my first suspect.  Interested in how you handled it.
>
> Ken K6MR
>
> From: Bob K6UJ<mailto:k6uj at pacbell.net>
> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 11:00
> To: topband at contesting.com<mailto:topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: The band sans noise
>
> rue" Name="index 1"/> <w
> Hi Ken,
>
> Be glad to.  It took me a while to get mine working, found some basic things I needed to do and it now works very well.
> First a question.  How far is your flag from the house and also an antenna tower or other metal structures ?  I had to detune my tower it is only 40 feet away from the Flag.  After this we can go over the construction of the Flag and its feed system issues like eliminating common mode interference.  Maybe it would be best to discuss this directly rather than the reflector ?
> I can be long winded.  hihi
>
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
> On 4/23/16 10:42 AM, Ken K6MR wrote:
>> Interesting comments about the WF. I recently built one and so far it has been a complete failure.
>>
>> Care to share the details?
>>
>> Ken K6MR
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Bob K6UJ<mailto:k6uj at pacbell.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 10:30
>> To: topband at contesting.com<mailto:topband at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: Topband: The band sans noise
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Sounds great !  hihihi  A lot cheaper than a Pixel too !
>>
>> Until now I have kept my comments to myself about the Pixel.
>> I had a Pixel for a short time and sold it.
>> At the time I had electrical hash from one direction due to loose
>> hardware on a power pole.
>> It took forever for our utility company to fix it.  I have a Waller
>> Flag for receive on 160 and it was very effective at nulling out the
>> power pole noise.  I read all the rave reviews on the Pixel and
>> thought it would outperform the Flag for nulling out the noise and was
>> also curious how it compared to the flag on picking up 160 DX signals.
>> The Pixel did provide a nice null from the power pole noise but not
>> nearly as deep of a null as the Waller Flag.  On discriminating
>> 160 DX from the band noise level
>> it was very poor indeed.  The Waller Flag way out performed the Pixel.
>> I could hear DX stations with the
>> flag and could not hear them at all on the pixel when receiving
>> stations close to the noise level.
>> The Pixel would be suited for someone in an apartment or with a small
>> lot and doesn't have the room for a larger receiving antenna like the
>> Waller Flag.  It is a compromise receiving antenna but we have to work
>> with what we have as far as room for antennas.
>>
>> 73,
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/23/16 9:45 AM, william radice wrote:
>>> :::: I have an antenna of very similar design and performance. It is
>>> an all aluminum lawn chair on a pole.
>>> BILL
>>>
>>> On 4/22/2016 1:42 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote:
>>>> Throw bricks all you want to the end of time but you'll never change
>>>> the fact that we tested that antenna and saw its performance first
>>>> hand; The preamp was designed by Jack Smith at CliftonLabs..I'm sure
>>>> he'll enjoy reading your comments and get a good laugh.
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>> Rob
>>>> K5UJ
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, JC <n4is at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> SORRY am not getting into this PR..   PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW
>>>>> performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm out of this discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> JC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off
>>>>> the sides.  From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what
>>>>> would be had with a horizontal loop.   Of course it isn't all in the
>>>>> antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special
>>>>> preamp designed for use with the antenna.
>>>>> <<<
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