Topband: underground cables question

Thu Oct 5 16:30:56 EDT 2017

Hi Jeff,
I have been using Commscope F660BEF flooded RG6 for years. I direct bury it.
It has a PE jacket. It is used for all receive antenna feedlines. Also use
it on 80M. Crimp on F-connectors is the way to go. If you do it right it is
very difficult to pull off the connector. Wedge it I a vise and try to pull
out the coax.

In regards to direct bury, I dug a trench about a foot deep. Lines with
about 4" of sand. Laid in the cables then covered to the surface with sand.
The grass grew over it. I have had to add a cable a number of years ago. It
was fairly easy to open up the trench, remove enough sand, lay down another
cable and recover with sand. So far 25 years in the ground. I buried RG6,
Buryflex, 7/8" hardline,  9913 and control cables.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Draughn
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 12:02 PM
To: Dale Putnam <daleputnam at hotmail.com>; Wes Attaway (N5WA)
<wesattaway at bellsouth.net>
Cc: topband at contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question

I've never used RG-6 flooded, if the material is sticky how tough is it to
get a good connection to the connector??

I'm getting ready to use some and just curious what I'm getting into.

Thanks

Jeff, N0OST

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 10:44 AM Wes Attaway (N5WA)
<wesattaway at bellsouth.net>
wrote:

> I installed 4 runs of BuryFlex through my slab and then out into the
>
> backyard about 15-years ago (when we built a new house) and it is 
> still
>
> working fine.  I have conduit through the slab (open at both ends) but 
> the
>
> cable is direct buried out in the yard (about 24" deep).
>
>
>
>    -------------------
>
> Wes Attaway (N5WA)
>
> (318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LA
>
> Computer/Cellphone Forensics
>
> AttawayForensics.com
>
>    -------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> Dale
>
> Putnam
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 10:13 AM
>
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>
> Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question
>
>
>
> must have to do with the annual rainfall.
>
>
>
> I too come from 30+ years in telco and radio comm. There are 12 runs 
> of 6 in
>
> conduit between building on one campus, and a number of others around 
> that
>
> are still dry after being there for 20+ years. And the conduit, I am
>
> speaking of is PVC TUBE..   pretty much the same stuff that carries the
>
> water into your house. IF someone wants to use emt conduit, then that 
> is the
>
> description that Guy so aptly describes. NOT a good deal. AND it isn't 
> rated
>
> for water per code in the electrical code either. I have seen where
>
> squirrels somehow managed to work the metal conduit hard enough with 
> the
>
> weather helping, to access the coax inside.. they didn't much like the
>
> sticky goo inside.. but that didn't stop them from eating enough to 
> short
>
> the coax..   and of course Muphy made it an intermittent short.
>
>
>
>
>
> Have a great day,
>
> --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy
>
>
>
> "Actions speak louder than words"
>
> 1856 - Abraham Lincoln
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: guyk2av at gmail.com <guyk2av at gmail.com> on behalf of Guy Olinger 
> K2AV
>
> <k2av.guy at gmail.com>
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:12 AM
>
> To: Dale Putnam
>
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>
> Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question
>
>
>
> Coming from an ancient Telco background which included keeping 
> microwave
>
> waveguides dry for AT&T, unless you are willing to pressurize the 
> conduit at
>
> one end and allow air to exit at the other, AND insure that the air is 
> dry
>
> enough to not condensate at your coldest possible ground temperature, 
> or run
>
> it with an unbroken slope to a point where water drains without 
> pumping and
>
> or can be suctioned, then make these assumptions:
>
>
>
> 1) Permanent performance and very long life is desired and outweighs cost.
>
> If you move a lot and are putting up stuff at rental housing you 
> probably
>
> need not worry. Just remember to start with new coax and cable at the 
> new
>
> rental place. Throw away the old stuff. Then mark this read and move 
> on to
>
> the next posting. If you think you are retiring at your place of 
> residence,
>
> and if lucky want it to work without a worry for the next 30 years 
> absent
>
> direct lightning strike, then read on.
>
>
>
> 2) All conduits will fill with water. That is their NATURAL state 
> unless you
>
> specifically and effectively mitigate it. At any time other than first
>
> installed, filled with water is their most probable state.
>
>
>
> This leaves the main usefulnesses of the conduit as
>
>
>
> a) Critter protection, and
>
>
>
> b) Cable replacement, if the conduit is large enough and water-proof 
> pull
>
> ropes are left in conduit,  a method of adding or replacing cables 
> that
>
> avoids redigging and leaving deprecated cable in the ground. These are
>
> significant long-term advantages, and many find those more than enough
>
> reason to use them. However.......
>
>
>
> 3) Even in conduit all cables must have permanent, water-proof jacketing.
>
> Most cable has jacketing that is not rated for permanent submersion, 
> meant
>
> for indoor use.
>
>
>
> Polyethelyne (PE) jacketed or hardline cable is really the only 
> commonly
>
> available choice for coax with portions permanently submerged. Flooded 
> is
>
> nice, but probably overkill INSIDE CONDUIT if the jacketing is PE or 
> other
>
> permanently waterproof material. ***RG213 does NOT conform.*** Any
>
> miscellaneous plastics do not conform. There are cables manufactured 
> with
>
> ham-uncommon materials to telephone company specifications, FOR 
> DELIVERY TO
>
> TELCO, that have all the water stuff worked out just fine. But BEWARE
>
> knockoffs and batches for retail that mfr knows will never be sample 
> tested
>
> by telco. Or for that matter cable that failed telco tests and was put 
> on
>
> the retail market to recover costs.
>
>
>
> High current rotator motor leads (as opposed to control leads) should 
> use
>
> the commonly available UG series direct-buriable power wiring 
> available at
>
> home improvement stores. Less voltage drop, permanent and rated for 
> wet
>
> environments.
>
>
>
> 4) splices or cable terminations should be made indoors and elevated 
> where
>
> waterproofing failure will not allow water to get inside the PE jacketing.
>
> Some manufactured multiconductor cables will have BOTH external and 
> internal
>
> insulation PE or teflon. Do not locate splices in conduit. You're just
>
> asking for it. Even if 9 out of 10 get away with it, be assured you 
> will be
>
> # 10. Murphy KNOWS all you've done, knows all the contest and 
> DXpedition
>
> dates, AND has a malevolent nature.
>
>
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Dale Putnam
>
> <daleputnam at hotmail.com<mailto:daleputnam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I agree with Ken, with only one option, and that would be if the 
> conduit is
>
> open on both ends.. allowing free air flow thru. That situation, MAY 
> help
>
> dry the water from sitting on the cable, depending on the average 
> humidity
>
> at the underground temp. Warm air from inside.. to cold air outside 
> may not
>
> work out well either.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Have a great day,
>
> --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy
>
>
>
> "Actions speak louder than words"
>
> 1856 - Abraham Lincoln
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Topband
>
> <topband-bounces at contesting.com<mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com>
> > on
>
> behalf of Ken Claerbout <k4zw at verizon.net<mailto:k4zw at verizon.net>>
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:19 AM
>
> To: topband at contesting.com<mailto:topband at contesting.com>
>
> Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question
>
>
>
> As you have found out, it's impossible to keep water out of a conduit 
> like
>
> that.  I use direct bury cabling and put it directly in the ground.
> Granted
>
> the cable is flooded, but putting in back in the conduit ensures it 
> will sit
>
> in some water, something I would try to avoid.
>
>
>
> 73
>
> Ken K4ZW
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: John
>
> <beaumonts at beaumonts.karoo.co.uk<mailto:beaumonts at beaumonts.karoo.co.u
> k>>
>
> To: topband <topband at contesting.com<mailto:topband at contesting.com>>
>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 5, 2017 4:11 am
>
> Subject: Topband: underground cables question
>
>
>
> Hi all, some  years ago I buried a 4 inch conduit about a foot deep in 
> my
>
> field , inside I run a control wire and a coax line RG213 to a 160 m
>
> vertical the feeder was a total of 5/4 wavelength long about half of 
> it in
>
> the conduit, it was used as one line for a pair of verticals spaced 
> 5/8 wave
>
> apart. When first installed it worked very good but after a while I 
> noticed
>
> it dropped off and I suspected water ingress. An insulation test with 
> 1000v
>
> from my electricians test equipment showed indeed a fall in insulation
>
> resistance.
>
>
>
> So my question is I have a couple of large reels of commscope F1160 
> BEF
>
> flooded 75 ohm
>
> do you think I could put it in the same conduit which has allowed some 
> water
>
> in or would you make alternative arrangements . I realise it a direct 
> bury
>
> coax but appreciate advice.
>
>
>
> I wish to get the two verticals going again will use 1 X 3/4 line 
> above
>
> ground 1x5/4 line part in conduit and a 1/2 wave to switch in and out 
> above
>
> ground.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
>
>
> John Beaumont
>
> G4EIM
>
>
>
>
>
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