Topband: underground cables question

Thu Oct 5 12:02:14 EDT 2017

I've never used RG-6 flooded, if the material is sticky how tough is it to
get a good connection to the connector??

I'm getting ready to use some and just curious what I'm getting into.

Thanks

Jeff, N0OST

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 10:44 AM Wes Attaway (N5WA) <wesattaway at bellsouth.net>
wrote:

> I installed 4 runs of BuryFlex through my slab and then out into the
>
> backyard about 15-years ago (when we built a new house) and it is still
>
> working fine.  I have conduit through the slab (open at both ends) but the
>
> cable is direct buried out in the yard (about 24" deep).
>
>
>
>    -------------------
>
> Wes Attaway (N5WA)
>
> (318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LA
>
> Computer/Cellphone Forensics
>
> AttawayForensics.com
>
>    -------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dale
>
> Putnam
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 10:13 AM
>
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>
> Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question
>
>
>
> must have to do with the annual rainfall.
>
>
>
> I too come from 30+ years in telco and radio comm. There are 12 runs of 6
> in
>
> conduit between building on one campus, and a number of others around that
>
> are still dry after being there for 20+ years. And the conduit, I am
>
> speaking of is PVC TUBE..   pretty much the same stuff that carries the
>
> water into your house. IF someone wants to use emt conduit, then that is
> the
>
> description that Guy so aptly describes. NOT a good deal. AND it isn't
> rated
>
> for water per code in the electrical code either. I have seen where
>
> squirrels somehow managed to work the metal conduit hard enough with the
>
> weather helping, to access the coax inside.. they didn't much like the
>
> sticky goo inside.. but that didn't stop them from eating enough to short
>
> the coax..   and of course Muphy made it an intermittent short.
>
>
>
>
>
> Have a great day,
>
> --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy
>
>
>
> "Actions speak louder than words"
>
> 1856 - Abraham Lincoln
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: guyk2av at gmail.com <guyk2av at gmail.com> on behalf of Guy Olinger K2AV
>
> <k2av.guy at gmail.com>
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 8:12 AM
>
> To: Dale Putnam
>
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
>
> Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question
>
>
>
> Coming from an ancient Telco background which included keeping microwave
>
> waveguides dry for AT&T, unless you are willing to pressurize the conduit
> at
>
> one end and allow air to exit at the other, AND insure that the air is dry
>
> enough to not condensate at your coldest possible ground temperature, or
> run
>
> it with an unbroken slope to a point where water drains without pumping and
>
> or can be suctioned, then make these assumptions:
>
>
>
> 1) Permanent performance and very long life is desired and outweighs cost.
>
> If you move a lot and are putting up stuff at rental housing you probably
>
> need not worry. Just remember to start with new coax and cable at the new
>
> rental place. Throw away the old stuff. Then mark this read and move on to
>
> the next posting. If you think you are retiring at your place of residence,
>
> and if lucky want it to work without a worry for the next 30 years absent
>
> direct lightning strike, then read on.
>
>
>
> 2) All conduits will fill with water. That is their NATURAL state unless
> you
>
> specifically and effectively mitigate it. At any time other than first
>
> installed, filled with water is their most probable state.
>
>
>
> This leaves the main usefulnesses of the conduit as
>
>
>
> a) Critter protection, and
>
>
>
> b) Cable replacement, if the conduit is large enough and water-proof pull
>
> ropes are left in conduit,  a method of adding or replacing cables that
>
> avoids redigging and leaving deprecated cable in the ground. These are
>
> significant long-term advantages, and many find those more than enough
>
> reason to use them. However.......
>
>
>
> 3) Even in conduit all cables must have permanent, water-proof jacketing.
>
> Most cable has jacketing that is not rated for permanent submersion, meant
>
> for indoor use.
>
>
>
> Polyethelyne (PE) jacketed or hardline cable is really the only commonly
>
> available choice for coax with portions permanently submerged. Flooded is
>
> nice, but probably overkill INSIDE CONDUIT if the jacketing is PE or other
>
> permanently waterproof material. ***RG213 does NOT conform.*** Any
>
> miscellaneous plastics do not conform. There are cables manufactured with
>
> ham-uncommon materials to telephone company specifications, FOR DELIVERY TO
>
> TELCO, that have all the water stuff worked out just fine. But BEWARE
>
> knockoffs and batches for retail that mfr knows will never be sample tested
>
> by telco. Or for that matter cable that failed telco tests and was put on
>
> the retail market to recover costs.
>
>
>
> High current rotator motor leads (as opposed to control leads) should use
>
> the commonly available UG series direct-buriable power wiring available at
>
> home improvement stores. Less voltage drop, permanent and rated for wet
>
> environments.
>
>
>
> 4) splices or cable terminations should be made indoors and elevated where
>
> waterproofing failure will not allow water to get inside the PE jacketing.
>
> Some manufactured multiconductor cables will have BOTH external and
> internal
>
> insulation PE or teflon. Do not locate splices in conduit. You're just
>
> asking for it. Even if 9 out of 10 get away with it, be assured you will be
>
> # 10. Murphy KNOWS all you've done, knows all the contest and DXpedition
>
> dates, AND has a malevolent nature.
>
>
>
> 73, Guy K2AV
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:49 AM, Dale Putnam
>
> <daleputnam at hotmail.com<mailto:daleputnam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I agree with Ken, with only one option, and that would be if the conduit is
>
> open on both ends.. allowing free air flow thru. That situation, MAY help
>
> dry the water from sitting on the cable, depending on the average humidity
>
> at the underground temp. Warm air from inside.. to cold air outside may not
>
> work out well either.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Have a great day,
>
> --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy
>
>
>
> "Actions speak louder than words"
>
> 1856 - Abraham Lincoln
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Topband
>
> <topband-bounces at contesting.com<mailto:topband-bounces at contesting.com>> on
>
> behalf of Ken Claerbout <k4zw at verizon.net<mailto:k4zw at verizon.net>>
>
> Sent: Thursday, October 5, 2017 6:19 AM
>
> To: topband at contesting.com<mailto:topband at contesting.com>
>
> Subject: Re: Topband: underground cables question
>
>
>
> As you have found out, it's impossible to keep water out of a conduit like
>
> that.  I use direct bury cabling and put it directly in the ground.
> Granted
>
> the cable is flooded, but putting in back in the conduit ensures it will
> sit
>
> in some water, something I would try to avoid.
>
>
>
> 73
>
> Ken K4ZW
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: John
>
> <beaumonts at beaumonts.karoo.co.uk<mailto:beaumonts at beaumonts.karoo.co.uk>>
>
> To: topband <topband at contesting.com<mailto:topband at contesting.com>>
>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 5, 2017 4:11 am
>
> Subject: Topband: underground cables question
>
>
>
> Hi all, some  years ago I buried a 4 inch conduit about a foot deep in my
>
> field , inside I run a control wire and a coax line RG213 to a 160 m
>
> vertical the feeder was a total of 5/4 wavelength long about half of it in
>
> the conduit, it was used as one line for a pair of verticals spaced 5/8
> wave
>
> apart. When first installed it worked very good but after a while I noticed
>
> it dropped off and I suspected water ingress. An insulation test with 1000v
>
> from my electricians test equipment showed indeed a fall in insulation
>
> resistance.
>
>
>
> So my question is I have a couple of large reels of commscope F1160 BEF
>
> flooded 75 ohm
>
> do you think I could put it in the same conduit which has allowed some
> water
>
> in or would you make alternative arrangements . I realise it a direct bury
>
> coax but appreciate advice.
>
>
>
> I wish to get the two verticals going again will use 1 X 3/4 line above
>
> ground 1x5/4 line part in conduit and a 1/2 wave to switch in and out above
>
> ground.
>
>
>
> regards
>
>
>
>
>
> John Beaumont
>
> G4EIM
>
>
>
>
>
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