Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 192, Issue 33

Fri Dec 28 12:20:02 EST 2018

JC said,
 The SAL is a good antenna, any directivity increases signal to noise
ratio. The RDF is 2 to 3 bd better than the vertical antenna, it means the
improvement on signal to noise ratio is about 6db.  You can dig signals 6
db below noise with the SAL  that you cannot hear with the inverted L.
>
> ..but the SAL  has the same performance of a K9AY, or EWE or a single
FLAG, The clamed 10 db RDF was never confirmed or measured, The SAL  is the
most complicated K9AY you can build. The separation in two loops does not
change the directivity.
>
> You can phase 2 FLAGS to increase RDF to 11.5 DB, as well you can phase
two K9AY or 4  if you want, but the SAL phasing system is complicated and
it is impractical to phase two SAL to increase RDF.
>
> 73
> JC
> N4IS

JC the SAL is not in the class of the single terminated loops of the K9AY
antenna, and you of all people should know this as it is in the same class
as your waller loop in that it uses two loops do derive the pattern.  in
each of the 4 directions.  And combines the loops to get the intermediate
directivity in 8 directions.  It is a fantastice ground independent antenna
and we can't hardly keep them in stock.  As to your claim that the RDF has
not been confirmed is also wrong.  It has been run on many simulation
platforms and I am sure you have studied it well.

We have a Yahoo group that you may join and get the NEC models and you may
feel free to join it as well.

The SAL is a fantastic antenna, and if one takes time to optimize it, it
will give the performance you see on the videos on You Tube, etc.  It
doesn't suffer from huge low gain problems of the HWF you sell, and is much
more cost effective for the small guys to get a good low band antenna
working to share DXing on top band as well as others as it is very broad
banded.
Due to it's gain, we do not need exotic amplification the the HWF
requires.  And we publish the details so a customer may build their own
successfully.

Try the SAL-30/20/12 guys, I have two of them up now and plan to phase
them, as one of my customers has done.

Thanks for reading and Happy New Year to the group.
Jay, WX0B

Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
214 954 7140

On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 11:00 AM <topband-request at contesting.com> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Inverted L improvement question (Cecil Acuff)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2018 10:31:56 -0600
> From: Cecil Acuff <chacuff at cableone.net>
> To: n4is at n4is.com
> Cc: Wes Stewart <wes_n7ws at triconet.org>,        Arthur Delibert
>         <radio75a3 at msn.com>, Jeff Woods <jmwooods at yahoo.com>,   topband
>         <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question
> Message-ID: <592429B6-A654-473E-88E6-62EBBF643031 at cableone.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8
>
> I would have kept mine if I had seen that kind of performance. Either I
> have a very low noise floor, I had degraded performance of the RX antenna
> for some reason or I was doing something wrong.  When I saw a difference in
> SNR it was very minor and wouldn?t have been the deciding factor in making
> the contact. It had a bit less loss than my K9AY but there was more wire in
> the air.  Difficult to erect...wife helped but fell once before we got it
> right.
>
> I don?t expect my experience was typical so not wanting to dissuade
> others...the SAL antennas are good antennas....but I didn?t see the
> performance displayed on the Array Solutions web site video at this
> location.
>
> Cecil
> K5DL
>
> Sent using recycled electrons.
>
> > On Dec 28, 2018, at 10:21 AM, <n4is at n4is.com> <n4is at n4is.com> wrote:
> >
> > Wes you're right
> >
> > The SAL is a good antenna, any directivity increases signal to noise
> ratio. The RDF is 2 to 3 bd better than the vertical antenna, it means the
> improvement on signal to noise ratio is about 6db.  You can dig signals 6
> db below noise with the SAL  that you cannot hear with the inverted L.
> >
> > ..but the SAL  has the same performance of a K9AY, or EWE or a single
> FLAG, The clamed 10 db RDF was never confirmed or measured, The SAL  is the
> most complicated K9AY you can build. The separation in two loops does not
> change the directivity.
> >
> > You can phase 2 FLAGS to increase RDF to 11.5 DB, as well you can phase
> two K9AY or 4  if you want, but the SAL phasing system is complicated and
> it is impractical to phase two SAL to increase RDF.
> >
> > 73
> > JC
> > N4IS
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Topband <topband-bounces at contesting.com> On Behalf Of Wes Stewart
> > Sent: Friday, December 28, 2018 10:50 AM
> > To: Arthur Delibert <radio75a3 at msn.com>; Jeff Woods <jmwooods at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: topband <topband at contesting.com>
> > Subject: Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question
> >
> > I was an early participant in the SAL yahoo group and introduced Dan,
> AC6LA, to the group.  He has provided a lot of modeling tools.
> >
> > That said, I lost interest after feeling that the design was too
> complicated, not well understood and suffered from a dizzying number of
> changes.  I could be totally wrong about this, but that was my assessment
> some time ago and frankly I haven't kept up.
> >
> > Wes  N7WS
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 12/27/2018 4:15 PM, Arthur Delibert wrote:
> >> You may also want to check out the SAL-12, -20 or -30 antennas from
> >> Array Solutions.  My yard is pretty small, but I was able to put up a
> >> SAL-12, and I love it.  (I do mostly 49-, 60- and 90-meter SWBC DX.)
> >> I can switch the antenna to any one of 8 different directions, and I'm
> >> often surprised to find that the DX is coming from a direction
> different from what I would expect.
> >> Often there's a very pronounced peak in the signal when the antenna is
> >> pointed in the right direction, and I really would not have had any
> >> copy if I couldn't point in that direction.
> >>
> >> The SAL-12 isn't especially good on 160, but is good from 3 MHz and
> >> higher. The SAL-20 and -30 are reportedly very good on 160.  If I
> >> recall right, the
> >> SAL-20 is directional up to 20 meters; the SAL-30 is good up to 40
> >> meters. Check the Array Solutions website to confirm.
> >>
> >> These aren't as cheap as putting up your own pennant, but above 3 MHz,
> >> the
> >> SAL-12 aimed NE almost always outperforms my pennant pointed in the
> >> same direction.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Art Delibert, KB3FJO
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> ----------
> >
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> End of Topband Digest, Vol 192, Issue 33
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