Topband: Polarization on 160m

Tree tree at kkn.net
Wed Nov 28 22:22:21 EST 2018 

Wait - I am further from the East Coast than both of you - I want to be DX
too!!

Tree N6TR

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 7:19 PM GEORGE WALLNER <aa7jv at atlanticbb.net> wrote:

> Herb,
> Of course the VI should be counted as DX. You are 1000 miles further from
> the ConUS than me, and I count as DX (C6AGU), being only 200 miles from
> FL.
> It is not logical that you should compete on the same level as the guys in
> the middle of the country, with everybody all around them. But, on the
> upside, you will be able to work me with ease!
> 73, GL and CU in the Contest,
> George,
> C6AGU/AA7JV
>
>
>
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 16:32:12 -0400
>   Herbert Schoenbohm <herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com> wrote:
> > That's correct but under these rules, the VI is not DX and counts the
> same
> > as a W/VE two-pointer.  Navassa which is certainly rare, especially on
> 160,
> > is counted as KP2.  Desecheo KP5 is counted the same as KP4.  Sort of
> weird
> > wouldn't you agree?  This is unfair when VP2V on 5 miles from KP2 is
> > counted as DX.  Also, all the rare DXCC US entities in the Pacific like
> > NMI, Wake, American Samoa, and Guam all count for Hawaii. The ARRL is set
> > in their ways and claims the 160-meter contest is supposed to be like SS
> > for 160.  They only add DX contacts when ARRL President W0DX and VP2VI
> > demanded he should not be excluded from operating in a contest he
> > envisioned in the first place. The bottom line is that the statins in the
> > U.S. Territories cannot be competitive and are seriously discriminated
> > against by the Contest Committee who refuses to visit this issue.  I
> > challenge you to look up the results over the past two decades.  Stations
> > in the U.S Territories are never even mentioned no matter how well they
> > have done in the ARRL 160 contest.
> >
> > Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:57 PM Mark KØKX <k0kx at mchsi.com> wrote:
> >> Herb,
> >>
> >> Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read the rules for the ARRL 160
> >> and saw where US possessions can work US VE and DX?
> >>
> >> 73, Mark  K0KX
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Herbert Schoenbohm" <herbert.schoenbohm at gmail.com>
> >> To: k3bu at optimum.net
> >> Cc: "TopBand List" <topband at contesting.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 1:41:08 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Topband: Polarization on 160m
> >>
> >> So is the 70-year-old Collins 74A4 with its mechanic filters and single
> >> conversion method.  Many times you could just roll the IX into a deep
> hole
> >> with the bandpass control and the signal would pop out of nowhere. Wish
> I
> >> still had mine to run comparisons.  I have now a modern (expensive) Flex
> >> 6600M that allows true dual diversity with 2 RX antennas with separate
> RX
> >> audio in each ear.  I will try it out in the ARRL 160 contest although
> the
> >> ARRL has the VI as non-DX which is always has been a real bummer.
> >>
> >> Herb Schoneobhm, KV4FZ
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 1:13 PM Yuri Blanarovich <k3bu at optimum.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >  Speaking of "two ears"
> >> > Going back to using two Drake R4B receivers, two antennas, one on each
> >> > ear, there would be times when "two ears" heard the signal, while
> >> > switching to each other there would be nil. I think that was some DSP
> >> > going on in the head.
> >> > BTW Drake R4B is still one of the best receivers for weak signals
> >> > reception, no crystal filters in the path to fuzzy the signals. LC in
> IF
> >> > chain. DSRs are now very close.
> >> >
> >> > Yuri, K3BU
> >> >
> >> >  On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Tree wrote:
> >> >
> >> >  > WIll add my two cents to this discussion.
> >> > >
> >> > > One thing I have experience with is diversity reception both on 160
> >> > > and 80
> >> > > meters.  Often - I would be using my TX antenna in one ear and a
> >> > > beverage
> >> > > in another.  On 80 meters, the TX antenna was a 4 square.  On 160,
> >> > > either a
> >> > > vertical or two element phased array.
> >> > >
> >> > > I found on 80 meters - when running JAs in a contest - if I only
> used
> >> > > one
> >> > > antenna - I would almost always miss one letter of the JA's callsign
> >> > > and
> >> > > have to ask for a repeat...  but with diversity - the signal would
> >> > > float
> >> > > around in my head and I could almost always get the whole call the
> >> > > first
> >> > > time.
> >> > >
> >> > > I can hear this effect on 160 as well as signals float around.  I
> >> > > can't
> >> > > prove this is just polarization - as it could be different angles of
> >> > > signal
> >> > > arrival - but it sure re-enforces the point that having different
> >> > > kinds of
> >> > > RX antennas for different situations is never a bad thing.
> >> > >
> >> > > I have experienced some sunrise openings where a low dipole has
> worked
> >> > > well.  There are times when my directive receive antennas seem to be
> >> > > broken
> >> > > - which is another indication of high angles.
> >> > >
> >> > > Tree N6TR
> >> > >
> >> > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 8:51 AM Yuri Blanarovich
> >> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> Not knowing about "gyros", but when operating and having vertical
> and
> >> > >> horizontal antennas available, I remember times when QSB was
> >> > >> happening
> >> > >> on one antenna, switching to the "other" polarization antenna would
> >> > >> bring the signals up.
> >> > >> My conclusion was that at the times the signal's polarization was
> >> > >> rolling around, especially when far DX.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Yuri, K3BU, VE3BMV, VE1BY
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>  On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 09:22 AM, Robert Parkes via Topband wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Polarization on 160m
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Interesting discussion and one I suspect we wish could fully
> >> > >>> comprehend !
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> When the wave front meets the ionosphere and the wave splits the
> >> > >>> critical frequency is different for the two waves, commonly known
> as
> >> > >>> foc and fxc.
> >> > >>> This difference (from memory) is half the gyrofrequency and can
> >> > >>> often
> >> > >>> be seen on Ionosonde plots with two sets of reflections. The gyro
> >> > >>> frequency depends on the strength of the magnetic field at that
> >> > >>> point
> >> > >>> of the ionosphere so can vary from 700kHz to 1.4MHz where the
> >> > >>> radiated
> >> > >>> wave interacts with the Ionosphere Layer be it, E layer or F
> layer.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Being radio amateurs and pushing the envelope we are trying to
> make
> >> > >>> that illusive QSO so we need to excite a propagation path which is
> >> > >>> normally at the limit in order to chase the DX.
> >> > >>> Assuming conditions are favourable, and if the angle of arrival
> and
> >> > >>> critical frequency is such that it favours both wave fronts then
> for
> >> > >>> a
> >> > >>> single and multi-hop transmission both the O-wave and the X-wave
> >> > >>> will
> >> > >>> be propagated.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> The higher frequency of the two wave fronts, the X-wave may
> >> > >>> propagate
> >> > >>> which could result in a QSO whilst those around us may not have
> >> > >>> quite
> >> > >>> the same favourable conditions and only the O-wave is propagated
> on
> >> > >>> a
> >> > >>> differeing path while the X-Wavecould fall by the wayside and not
> be
> >> > >>> propagated.
> >> > >>> One result of all this variability could result in what has been
> >> > >>> called spotlight or torchlight propagation.  I recall Eric K3NA
> >> > >>> giving
> >> > >>> a talk along these lines when referring to 3B7C 160m operations
> and
> >> > >>> how that spotlight moved across North America during the course of
> >> > >>> his
> >> > >>> opening to the US.
> >> > >>> There is a possibility that Circular Polarisation would assist
> >> > >>> with both the O and X wave modes of propagation and it could be
> >> > >>> argued
> >> > >>> that a "compromise" Inv-L antenna provides this with its Vertical
> >> > >>> and
> >> > >>> Horizontal elements making up the antenna and resulting mixed
> >> > >>> polarisation.After all a number of amateurs have had good success
> >> > >>> with
> >> > >>> an Inv-L.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> 73sBob ParkesG3REP(ex - S21YP, 4S7RPG, A45XF, VS5RP, P29PR)
> >> > >>> _________________
> >> > >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> >> > >>> Reflector
> >> > >>>
> >> > >> _________________
> >> > >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> >> > >> Reflector
> >> > >>
> >> > > _________________
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> >> > >
> >> > _________________
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> >> > Reflector
> >> >
> >> _________________
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> >> Reflector
> > _________________
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> Reflector
>
> _________________
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