Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 209, Issue 14

Fri May 15 12:47:28 EDT 2020

Matching an inverted L using a single shunt coin (Hairpin)  Also gives you
a DC path to ground.  No capacitors needed.
https://www.arraysolutions.com/pdfs/Tuning_160m_Vertical.pdf
Regards to the group
Jay, WX0B

Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
214 954 7140

On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:00 AM <topband-request at contesting.com> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: INV L matching (Tom | SP5XO)
>    2. 2 wire reversible Beverage (Fred Moeves)
>    3. Re: FT8 (W0MU Mike Fatchett)
>    4. Re: INV L matching (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
>    5. 160m VA1RST (Andree DL8LAS)
>    6. Re: 2 wire reversible Beverage (List Mail)
>    7. 160m Vertical (Ron WV4P)
>    8. Re: 160m Vertical (Tree)
>    9. Re: 160m Vertical (Joe)
>   10. Re: 160m Vertical (donovanf at starpower.net)
>   11. Re: 160m Vertical (Tree)
>   12. Re: 160m Vertical (Ken Claerbout)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 18:26:05 +0200
> From: "Tom | SP5XO" <tom at sp5xo.net>
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: INV L matching
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGw23xKhP+=
> s1s_wLoPFyAEXRb8rMhNWzfdYA-YwTrAep-PcTg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hello OMs Topbbanders
> As I'm planning to put up inverted L antenna for next season i will face
> the matching vs bandwidth struggle I know there is a cure for short
> vertical section and low impedance (with reasonable radial system) and I
> already tested some extended horizontal section and matching capacitor in
> the feeedpoint
>
> However i was considering some other impedance matching methods and came
> across DK7ZB matching transformers. For example to get good match for 28Ohm
> yagi there is 1/4 wave 75Ohm parallel feedlines transformer used with good,
> wideband match. Since short vertical inv L over reasonable ground should
> have roughly 20 OHm impedance that could work here as well.
>
>  Sure it is 2 x quarter wave 75 OHM coax (shortened by VF) but is there any
> wideband "gain" for such feeding method? It would be still easier than
> switching remotely some caps each 10kHz or something.
>
> Is there anybody who tried this one?
> Thanks
> Tom
> sp5xo
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 17:29:32 -0400
> From: Fred Moeves <fmoeves at twc.com>
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage
> Message-ID: <1d2bd574-9309-b06b-196f-778dbe2c3e13 at twc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to wind the transformers for the 2 wire
> Beverage.
> I have ordered some WD1A wire and will be trying to use that.
>
> I posted this on Topband maybe 2 weeks ago and got some suggestions on
> and off the reflector.
>
> One question I have is how to read the resistance of the wire...without
> the xfmrs? The wire to ground?
> I do have a Zoom analyser.
>
> I have wired the more simple transformers for a plain Beverage but never
> the center tapped xfmrs...I think I know how to wind them but not sure.
>
> On the xfmrs that are center tapped is that the reason for the bifillar
> wire?
>
> Or do you wind the xfmrs? on the center tapped side with one wire and
> just leave a little sticking out to pickup the center?
>
> I like to home brew what I can and try to learn something in the process.
>
> Anyway hope this makes sense ?
>
> 73
>
> Fred KB4QZH
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 16:29:28 -0600
> From: W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu at w0mu.com>
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: FT8
> Message-ID: <6de1594f-a563-8dc0-a15d-27d70cc438f2 at w0mu.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> It is just another FT8 bashing post.? It is why we had to create another
> list.? I just set up a new filter so I won't be bothered by trolls.
>
> W0MU
>
> On 5/13/2020 1:03 PM, Ross Johnson wrote:
> > Roger your lack understanding surprises me , and others here.
> >
> > Like your station mine only hears what it hears. Ft8 users are not all
> > connected via the net.
> >
> > So its interesting to see on cluster wot other ZLs are hearing or
> > working.
> >
> > I seldom post but some have an ego issue I suspect.
> >
> > And there is no auto posting to clusters , however my station sends
> > info to PSK reporter .
> >
> >
> > Ross?? ZL3RJ
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 20:35:19 -0700
> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com>
> To: Tom | SP5XO <tom at sp5xo.net>, topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: INV L matching
> Message-ID: <21bce6b7-8506-c90b-5fe8-63e17eba7a1c at karlquist.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On 5/14/2020 9:26 AM, Tom | SP5XO wrote:
> >d,
> > wideband match. Since short vertical inv L over reasonable ground should
> > have roughly 20 OHm impedance that could work here as well.
>
> The matching network that will maximize bandwidth
> is an autotransformer wound on a 2.4 inch diameter
> ferrite core.  For example, a transformer with a
> 3:2 turns ratio will transform 50 ohms to 22.2 ohms.
> I use a homebrew autotransformer on my 90 foot
> vertical which has around 25 ohms drive impedance.
> See Jerry Sevick's book on RF transformers for
> info on "un-uns".
>
> Rick N6RK
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 05:34:39 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Andree DL8LAS <dl8las at aol.com>
> To: "topband at contesting.com" <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Topband: 160m VA1RST
> Message-ID: <484774565.413599.1589520879109 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>  Hey,today worked VA1RST Roger again witha very nice signal.The QSO is on
> a short clip on youtube.
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwggxPyz5On3ounTLNnr1lw
>
>
> 73 Andy DL8LAS
> www.dl8las.com
> www.swing-company-bigband.de/
> www.uni-big-band-kiel.de/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 18:34:10 +1000
> From: "List Mail" <mail10 at barefoothorse.com.au>
> To: <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage
> Message-ID: <B8AB17C57D084E569E597C366A7F4921 at LukeNetbook>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
>         reply-type=response
>
> I followed the instructions on the W0BTU website, which gave me all the
> information I needed to set up three, two-wire Beverages here.
>
> I found the easiest wire to work with for the baluns is what I stripped
> out
> of two-pair indoor telephone wire. It has four colours PVC insulation on
> thin solid copper wire, so there is no issue identifying which winding is
> which! The advantage of the thin PVC insulated wire is both ease of
> identification and little risk of nicking the insulation as it passes
> through the (conductive) ferrite cores.
>
> For the Beverage wires, I used 3.0 mm heavy galvanised high-tensile steel
> fencing wire. A 1500 m (nearly a mile) coil plus a bit did the job.
> Spacing
> is about 40 mm (about 1.5"). All the hardware is electric fence stuff, I
> bought at the local (rural) hardware store.
>
> 73,
>
> Luke VK3HJ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Moeves
> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 7:29 AM
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: 2 wire reversible Beverage
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to wind the transformers for the 2 wire
> Beverage.
> I have ordered some WD1A wire and will be trying to use that.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:14:32 -0500
> From: Ron WV4P <wv4ptn at gmail.com>
> To: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: 160m Vertical
> Message-ID:
>         <CAPQMqnfxc9XPVmE68w8OZtM6rZxy5Cr61U=_
> eS+zTo93Wh8+Jw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>  I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna
> will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from 115'
> - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'.
> I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my
> research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... But
> the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band,
> perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized
> inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or Short
> ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o)
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ron WV4P
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 08:18:39 -0700
> From: Tree <tree at kkn.net>
> To: Ron WV4P <wv4ptn at gmail.com>
> Cc: 160 <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAKF9Hhb4iKNHprEa+5Ti0TreypjHj70RRRpir55_xvNE3TsOXw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the
> difference.  If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor -
> but it's typically more trouble than the inductor.
>
> Tree N6TR
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <wv4ptn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna
> > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from
> 115'
> > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'.
> > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my
> > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... But
> > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band,
> > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized
> > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or
> Short
> > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o)
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Ron WV4P
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:21:10 -0500
> From: Joe <nss at mwt.net>
> To: Tree <tree at kkn.net>, Ron WV4P <wv4ptn at gmail.com>
> Cc: 160 <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
> Message-ID: <193ed6aa-59d2-92e0-e9e1-c50756edc5bb at mwt.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> Myself I like longer,
>
> Yes gotta use a cap, But not too big a deal, I find more variable caps
> at hamfests than roller inductors.
>
> PLUS, longer raises the natural impedance too closer to 50 ohms. Of
> course NOT 50 but higher than 1/4 wave resistance.
>
> Joe WB9SBD
> Sig
> The Original Rolling Ball Clock
> Idle Tyme
> Idle-Tyme.com
> http://www.idle-tyme.com
> On 5/15/2020 10:18 AM, Tree wrote:
> > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the
> > difference.  If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor -
> > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor.
> >
> > Tree N6TR
> >
> > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <wv4ptn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>   I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna
> >> will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from
> 115'
> >> - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'.
> >> I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my
> >> research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... But
> >> the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band,
> >> perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized
> >> inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or
> Short
> >> ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o)
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance,
> >> Ron WV4P
> >> _________________
> >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> >> Reflector
> >>
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 11:27:49 -0400 (EDT)
> From: donovanf at starpower.net
> To: 160 <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
> Message-ID:
>         <1147378433.5689159.1589556469003.JavaMail.root at starpower.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
>
>
> A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax
> cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband.
>
>
> How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR?
>
>
> A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for
> resonance around 1820 kHz
>
> If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the
> vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet
> of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz.
>
>
>
> Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Tree" <tree at kkn.net>
> To: "Ron WV4P" <wv4ptn at gmail.com>
> Cc: "160" <topband at contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
>
> Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the
> difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor -
> but it's typically more trouble than the inductor.
>
> Tree N6TR
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <wv4ptn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna
> > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from
> 115'
> > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'.
> > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my
> > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting.... But
> > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band,
> > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized
> > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or
> Short
> > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o)
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Ron WV4P
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
> >
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 08:34:23 -0700
> From: Tree <tree at kkn.net>
> To: Frank Donovan <donovanf at starpower.net>
> Cc: 160 <topband at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
> Message-ID:
>         <CAKF9HhYTfz4KC=K1vOuz=
> hxJzjbRhMoMWVoUxnCEP2Fiegy5Eg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> One approach for the inductor that I have used when doing parasitic element
> tuning is to put two SO239's in series and either put a shorted plug in for
> no added inductance - or a PL259 fashioned with a few turns of heavy gauge
> wire.  You can label them for the frequency you are wanting.
>
> I used that technique to go from a director to a reflector back when I was
> playing with a vertical parasitic array on 160.
>
> Tree N6TR
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:28 AM <donovanf at starpower.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> >
> >
> > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax
> > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband.
> >
> >
> > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR?
> >
> >
> > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for
> > resonance around 1820 kHz
> >
> > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the
> > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet
> > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz.
> >
> >
> >
> > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band.
> >
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Tree" <tree at kkn.net>
> > To: "Ron WV4P" <wv4ptn at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "160" <topband at contesting.com>
> > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
> >
> > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the
> > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor -
> > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor.
> >
> > Tree N6TR
> >
> > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <wv4ptn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna
> > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from
> > 115'
> > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'.
> > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my
> > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting....
> But
> > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band,
> > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized
> > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or
> > Short
> > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o)
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Ron WV4P
> > > _________________
> > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > > Reflector
> > >
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
> >
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 11:52:01 -0400
> From: Ken Claerbout <kenk4zw at gmail.com>
> To: Topband at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
> Message-ID:
>         <CAML5bQOabcHNGfEQPdst8nL2qmOOjhr1Q-=
> k6bfCzOksmenXpg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I would favor using an inductor.  Tune it for the lowest part of the
> band.  Then using a relay or two, you can short out turns if you want
> to move higher in the band.  Although I think you will find using Rohn
> 25, it will be pretty broad.
>
> 73
> Ken K4ZW
>
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 11:28 AM <donovanf at starpower.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> >
> >
> > A more reliable approach is a tuner in your shack. The extra coax
> > cable loss from elevated VSWR is insignificant on topband.
> >
> >
> > How high up the band do you want to go and at what maximum VSWR?
> >
> >
> > A resonant Rohn 25 160M vertical will be about 124 feet tall for
> > resonance around 1820 kHz
> >
> > If for some reason you must install a tuner at the feed point of the
> > vertical, follow Tree's advice and make it slightly short: 120 feet
> > of 115 ft if you need to tune for minimum VSWR above 1900 kHz.
> >
> >
> >
> > Use a small tapped inductor to tune it around the band.
> >
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Tree" <tree at kkn.net>
> > To: "Ron WV4P" <wv4ptn at gmail.com>
> > Cc: "160" <topband at contesting.com>
> > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 3:18:39 PM
> > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical
> >
> > Slightly shorter makes it easy to use an inductor to make up the
> > difference. If you make it long - you can do the same with a capacitor -
> > but it's typically more trouble than the inductor.
> >
> > Tree N6TR
> >
> > On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 8:15 AM Ron WV4P <wv4ptn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I have built an insulated base for a 1/4 wave 160 antenna. The antenna
> > > will be XXX' of Rohn 25. In searching I see people using heights from
> 115'
> > > - 130' with a pretty high number around 124'.
> > > I do not know how I am going to match it yet, I figure I will do my
> > > research on that once it's up so I can learn while experimenting....
> But
> > > the height has me second guessing. I want it tunable across the band,
> > > perhaps using a Tornado Tuner like my JK 801's have with a motorized
> > > inductor ? But the question at hand is do I want the antenna Tall or
> Short
> > > ? What is the Method behind the Madness ? :o)
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > > Ron WV4P
> > > _________________
> > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > > Reflector
> > >
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
> >
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Topband mailing list
> Topband at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Topband Digest, Vol 209, Issue 14
> ****************************************
>