Fw: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?

Sun, 7 Jul 2002 13:27:47 -0400

I think Tom and I are on different wavelengths!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim White" <k4oj@tampabay.rr.com>
To: "Tom Wagner" <tom@n1mm.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?

> Tom,
>
> I am talking about redi-mix truck pulling up with it already mixed...you
> know, the concrete truck with the spinning drum.....not Sakrete or
> wheelbarrows and sand and aggregate and Portland cement.
>
> The redi-mix will push the water out of its way as it goes to the bottom
of
> the hole....the water comes out the top...done.
>
> I suspect you are thinking I am talking about actually making the concrete
> in the hole which I am not...
>
> The statement that concrete is stronger when mixed with less water is
> mis-leading - there is a correct amount of water to make a batch - less
> leads to stiffer mix, yes, but whether or not it will cure into stronger
> concrete is not a function of initial water used alone!
>
> K4OJ
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Wagner" <tfwagner@snet.net>
> To: "Jim White" <k4oj@tampabay.rr.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?
>
>
> > That's wrong.  Concrete is stronger when mixed with less water.
> >
> > I received a private reply from someone who does this for
> > a living.  He said that you won't get much mixing pouring
> > under water.  Therefore, your method is ok, not because
> > it's ok to mix concrete as loose as you want.
> >
> > 73,
> > Tom
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim White" <k4oj@tampabay.rr.com>
> > To: "Tom Wagner" <tom@n1mm.com>; <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 11:57
> > Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?
> >
> >
> > > SAY WHAT?
> > >
> > > It will just take longer for the concrete to cure - which is an
> wonderful
> > > thing!  The ultimate strength of concrete is greater the longer it
takes
> > to
> > > cure - during the initial phases of curing you will see concrete being
> > > spritzed with water and hay placed on it to try and keep more of the
> > > moisture on the concrete....during the first few days after pouring
many
> > > spray the concrete with water again - no sense in rushing
things....the
> > > ideal or ultimate concrete would NEVER cure!
> > >
> > > Basically the concrete will displace the standing water...you will end
> up
> > > with a little thinner mix but not worth mentioning - where you will
> notice
> > > it is on the very top of the pour when you go to finish the
> concrete....do
> > > not fret....it is gonna be fine.
> > >
> > > K4OJ
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tom Wagner" <tfwagner@snet.net>
> > > To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:13 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?
> > >
> > >
> > > > If you stab the concrete with a shovel with a foot
> > > > of water on top, won't you mix the water into
> > > > the concrete?
> > > >
> > > > Excess water makes concrete weak.
> > > >
> > > > Tom - N1MM
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Jim White" <k4oj@tampabay.rr.com>
> > > > To: "Tom Wagner" <tom@n1mm.com>; "David" <k4zzr@bellsouth.net>;
> > > > <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:06
> > > > Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > As the concrete is going in I always continuously stab the pour
with
> a
> > > > round
> > > > > point shovel - just to make sure there are no voids created...
> > > > >
> > > > > I really doubt you need worry about pumping the water - the
concrete
> > > WILL
> > > > > displace it - "been there done that" - the displaced water however
> > needs
> > > > to
> > > > > be guided to wherever you want it guided to - or - the alternative
> is
> > to
> > > > > pump it to where you want it to end up....fortunately the few
pours
> I
> > > have
> > > > > had water in the hole were in locations near a suitable dumping
> ground
> > > for
> > > > > the overflowing water and a trench was simply dug to aid in
pointing
> > it
> > > in
> > > > > the right direction...
> > > > >
> > > > > K4OJ
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Tom Wagner" <tfwagner@snet.net>
> > > > > To: "Jim White" <k4oj@tampabay.rr.com>; "David"
> <k4zzr@bellsouth.net>;
> > > > > <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 9:51 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure the driver of the concrete truck will have seen
> > > > > > this before. Offer him some money to help you pour, and
> > > > > > you'll get his advice for free.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My guess is that Jim is right, but I'd think about pumping
> > > > > > the water out after you have put a foot or two of the
> > > > > > concrete in.  You'll want to punch down the concrete to
> > > > > > get the air out long before the hole is full.  Have you ever
> > > > > > pushed a 2x4 through 6' of concrete?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just make sure you have a pump on hand that can clear
> > > > > > the hole in 5 min or so.  Then you have options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 73 & gl,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom Wagner - N1MM
> > > > > > Check out the N1MM Free Contest Logger at
> > > > > > http://www.N1MM.com
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/N1MMLogger
> > > > > > No Yahoo membership required.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Jim White" <k4oj@tampabay.rr.com>
> > > > > > To: "David" <k4zzr@bellsouth.net>; <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 09:36
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would leave it alone....sounds like it is slightly oversized
> > > > > > already....as
> > > > > > > far as aesthetics goes - be prepared to form a "top" where the
> > slab
> > > > > > extends
> > > > > > > above the ground....I would not pump any standing water out -
I
> > > would
> > > > > let
> > > > > > > the concrete displace the water - be prepared for the "run
off"
> as
> > > it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > kicked out of the hole by the concrete.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 73, GL
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jim, K4OJ
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "David" <k4zzr@bellsouth.net>
> > > > > > > To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 9:03 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [Towertalk] Hit water digging hole - advice?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We dug the 5'x5'x6'  hole for the tower Saturday and have
the
> > > > concrete
> > > > > > > truck
> > > > > > > > coming Monday morning.  QTH is south Florida, soil is a dark
> > loamy
> > > > > > > > consistency with plenty of sand content.  The sides seem to
be
> > > > holding
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > and the moment .  We didn't notice that we had hit the water
> > table
> > > > > until
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > were almost 6' down because it was just a trickle.  I
checked
> > the
> > > > hole
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > morning and I've got a full foot of water in the bottom now.
> > I'm
> > > > > > worried
> > > > > > > > the sides might start caving in between now and tomorrow.
I
> > > > figured
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > > would pump out the water when the concrete truck gets here,
> but
> > > now
> > > > I
> > > > > > > wonder
> > > > > > > > if I should try to keep pumping it out between now and
Monday
> or
> > > > just
> > > > > > > wait.
> > > > > > > > One thought is that if I pump out the water now, the spot
> water
> > > the
> > > > > > water
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > coming in might eat away at the sandy soil even more as it
> > refills
> > > > the
> > > > > > > hole,
> > > > > > > > the other thought is that I should pump it out now so it
> doesn't
> > > > > soften
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > four sides and cause them to fall in.   Obviously, any QUICK
> > > > thoughts
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > > suggestions would be most welcome.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 73,
> > > > > > > > David, K4ZZR
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web
site:
> > > > > > http://www.mscomputer.com
> > > > > > > Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad
> and
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> > > > > > additional 5 percent off
> > > > > > > any weather station price.
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
> > > http://www.mscomputer.com
> > > > Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and
> take
> > an
> > > additional 5 percent off
> > > > any weather station price.
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> > >
> >
>