[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 40
Kevin Thomas
w5kgt at w5kgt.com
Thu Nov 15 08:45:56 EST 2007
Hey Guys,
The stories I was talking about, Where from other people who have put these towers up. All the towers that I have installed have been well built and installed as close to specs as possible by the owner. I don't tell anyone how to install towers. I show or tell them the specs from the book and go with that. If they want to cut corners thats there choice. I just stack towers. I don't do any ground work. If it does not look right, I wont touch it. And as for as encouraging others to do it different is not my intentions. Just stating the facts that most hams and CB'ers will not follow instructions. Like guyed post, guy wires, clamps, bolts, and brackets.
Here is an example: Man installs a 120 foot tower using trailer house anchors and two sets of 3/16" guyes. Three element HF beam and a dual band ground plain antenna at the top. I told him he was crazy for using trailer house anchors first off (3 foot long). Then only two sets of wires. Are you nuts. He said that if a trailer house anchor could hold a trailer down it should work for a tower. First big thunder storm comes and blows it down across his house.
I tried. But he would not listen.
I'm only saying what I have seen. I love my Ham buddies. I can give them better guidence than some ex CBer. I'd rather do it than see one of my buddies get hurt.I can go on and on about all the towers I have seen put up by other people including professonals (which cut corners too).
Again I do not install base concrete or guy anchors. I only stack and un-stack sections.
I enjoyed staying with Bill, And listening to his advice. His tower was the first 55 that I have stacked.
Read the Rohn Book of specs.
W5KGT
Kevin Thomas
Calhoun,La.
----- Original Message -----
From: towertalk-request at contesting.com
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:49:23 AM (GMT-0600) America/Chicago
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 40
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Rohn 25G Tower (Cqtestk4xs at aol.com)
2. Re: Rohn 25G Tower (Michael Ryan)
3. Re: F12 EF-140S (Phil Snyder)
4. Re: Cable Treatment Suggestions (Ian White GM3SEK)
5. Re: Rohn 25G Tower (David Calder)
6. unguyed Rohn 25 (Gregg Seidl)
7. Re: Rohn 25G Tower (Wayne Kline)
8. Re: unguyed Rohn 25 (w5ba at charter.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:11:14 EST
From: Cqtestk4xs at aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
To: TOWERTALK at contesting.com
Message-ID: <ca8.1cc1e791.346a61c2 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 11/13/2007 12:20:30 A.M. Greenwich Standard Time,
w5kgt at w5kgt.com writes:
I have installed over 85 Rohn 25G towers in the past 30 years. Many have
been 40-50 foot with the proper base and no guy wires. These have been for the
CB'ers and Ham radio operators. These also have anywhere between 3 & 6 element
beams. Never have heard of a problem with any of these. I know of a 70 foot
Rohn 25G tower that has a 4 element Moonraker beam with no guy wires. It has
a 5'x5'x5' concrete base and still standing after 25 years of North Louisiana
weather....W5KGT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uh, Kevin installed my tower out here in KH6. Kevin has a pretty big brass
set to hover above the ground on 50 feet of unguyed Rohn 25...especially with
a tribander on top. This is an accident waiting to happen.
In Florida I saw the results of what a hurricane can do to Rohn 25 and it
ain't pretty. With several hundred pounds of tower and antenna at that height,
the installation can be lethal.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's safe. I can drive with
without using my hands for a while and just because I can do it doesn't mean
it is a smart thing to do.
YMMV.
Bill K4XS/KH7XS
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:50:29 -0500
From: "Michael Ryan" <mryan001 at tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
To: <Cqtestk4xs at aol.com>, <TOWERTALK at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <007101c8259f$f37c3350$da7499f0$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bill, In my opinion you are right on the money. I read stuff on here about
how successful guys have been with their respective projects. Most are cool.
This week the subject is the Rohn 25....a lot of discussion on UN-GUYED Rohn
25. Are you kiddin'? You just have to wonder how many of these success
stories are in reality just accidents looking for the right time and place
to 'drop trow'. I also maintain that some of these weekend warriors are the
reason why it can be so hard to get a permit to install and /or permission
to install a tower for many of the rest. The auto manufacturers do not
include a manual on how to drive in the glove compartment of each car they
sell. They assume the buyer does. The same is true of the companies who sell
towers and related "stuff" ( that's 'tower talk' for equipment). Fact is it
can be just as dangerous to install or service a tower without the
experience and/or due diligence as it is to take a drive on The Howard
Frankland Bridge... but they'll keep on doing it. I can hear it now "...my
brother-in-law said it would be ok." All I have to say is,
" good luck, my brass balled buddies." - Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cqtestk4xs at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:11 PM
To: TOWERTALK at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
In a message dated 11/13/2007 12:20:30 A.M. Greenwich Standard Time,
w5kgt at w5kgt.com writes:
I have installed over 85 Rohn 25G towers in the past 30 years. Many have
been 40-50 foot with the proper base and no guy wires. These have been for
the
CB'ers and Ham radio operators. These also have anywhere between 3 & 6
element
beams. Never have heard of a problem with any of these. I know of a 70 foot
Rohn 25G tower that has a 4 element Moonraker beam with no guy wires. It
has
a 5'x5'x5' concrete base and still standing after 25 years of North
Louisiana
weather....W5KGT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uh, Kevin installed my tower out here in KH6. Kevin has a pretty big brass
set to hover above the ground on 50 feet of unguyed Rohn 25...especially
with
a tribander on top. This is an accident waiting to happen.
In Florida I saw the results of what a hurricane can do to Rohn 25 and it
ain't pretty. With several hundred pounds of tower and antenna at that
height,
the installation can be lethal.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's safe. I can drive with
without using my hands for a while and just because I can do it doesn't
mean
it is a smart thing to do.
YMMV.
Bill K4XS/KH7XS
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
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This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:55:19 -0600
From: Phil Snyder <n9lah at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] F12 EF-140S
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <47391217.6050408 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Thanks for all the replies and especially the fact that they all agree
that my idea will work. Although I may need to take some time to get it
done right and it may not make tis round of tower work.
Phil
N9LAH
Phil Snyder wrote:
> I have the antenna mentioned in the subject line. I purchased it used
> about a year ago. I never really got around to checking it out. I have
> now tried to assemble it as a stand alone dipole. The problem I have is
> that it only came with the bracket to mount to the boom of a C-3 and not
> the plate with riser to hold the linear loading when assembled as a
> dipole. For those familiar with the antenna, can I just fabricate a
> small plate to mount the spreader on the mast above the antenna? It
> almost looks like too simple an idea to work.
>
> Phil
> N9LAH
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:43:32 +0000
From: Ian White GM3SEK <gm3sek at ifwtech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cable Treatment Suggestions
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Cc: Peter Sundberg <sm2cew at telia.com>
Message-ID: <xwa6mjJ0OWOHFAD5 at ifwtech.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
Roger (K8RI) wrote:
>
>>Has anyone here ever built or acquired a simple, small plow blade,
>>scoop, digger suitable for a decent sized garden tractor yet capable
>>of digging enough trench to bury control line, RG6 bev lines or even a
>>run of RG8
>
>Take a look at the blade and feeder the power company uses to bury the
>natural gas lines feeding the customer.
>If only going down 3 or 4 inches max a fairly simple system can be built you
>can hook to a medicum size garden tractor with little expense if you have
>access to some welding equipment.
[...]
>BTW the same device can be used to bury radials just beneath the surface
>although it doesn't need to be near as "beefy" to just cut a slot in the
>grass and lay the wire.
http://www.sm2cew.com/plow.htm
Not quite big enough for Bill's cables, but a very good source of ideas.
It also confirms that just everybody needs to own a red Volvo tractor.
--
73 from Ian GM3SEK
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:58:22 -0500
From: "David Calder" <n4zkf at n4zkf.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
To: "'TowerTalk'" <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <fc3ih8s5xjfn2y1.131120070655 at n4zkf.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Funny, weekend warriors. While I wouldn't be caught dead on 70' of unguyed
25. I'm in the business. I'm a
territory supervisor for American Tower. Imagine that. Been in the business
for almost 2 decades.
I wonder if that makes ME a weekend warrior. I think this thread got way off
base some time ago.
I have 30' of 25 unguyed above my roof line. That causes you to not get a
permit in Tampa? You lost me there.
73 Dave n4zkf
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael Ryan
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:50 PM
To: Cqtestk4xs at aol.com; TOWERTALK at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
Bill, In my opinion you are right on the money. I read stuff on here about
how successful guys have been with their respective projects. Most are cool.
This week the subject is the Rohn 25....a lot of discussion on UN-GUYED Rohn
25. Are you kiddin'? You just have to wonder how many of these success
stories are in reality just accidents looking for the right time and place
to 'drop trow'. I also maintain that some of these weekend warriors are the
reason why it can be so hard to get a permit to install and /or permission
to install a tower for many of the rest. The auto manufacturers do not
include a manual on how to drive in the glove compartment of each car they
sell. They assume the buyer does. The same is true of the companies who sell
towers and related "stuff" ( that's 'tower talk' for equipment). Fact is it
can be just as dangerous to install or service a tower without the
experience and/or due diligence as it is to take a drive on The Howard
Frankland Bridge... but they'll keep on doing it. I can hear it now "...my
brother-in-law said it would be ok." All I have to say is, " good luck, my
brass balled buddies." - Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cqtestk4xs at aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:11 PM
To: TOWERTALK at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
In a message dated 11/13/2007 12:20:30 A.M. Greenwich Standard Time,
w5kgt at w5kgt.com writes:
I have installed over 85 Rohn 25G towers in the past 30 years. Many have
been 40-50 foot with the proper base and no guy wires. These have been for
the CB'ers and Ham radio operators. These also have anywhere between 3 & 6
element beams. Never have heard of a problem with any of these. I know of a
70 foot
Rohn 25G tower that has a 4 element Moonraker beam with no guy wires. It
has a 5'x5'x5' concrete base and still standing after 25 years of North
Louisiana weather....W5KGT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uh, Kevin installed my tower out here in KH6. Kevin has a pretty big brass
set to hover above the ground on 50 feet of unguyed Rohn 25...especially
with a tribander on top. This is an accident waiting to happen.
In Florida I saw the results of what a hurricane can do to Rohn 25 and it
ain't pretty. With several hundred pounds of tower and antenna at that
height, the installation can be lethal.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's safe. I can drive with
without using my hands for a while and just because I can do it doesn't mean
it is a smart thing to do.
YMMV.
Bill K4XS/KH7XS
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
__________ NOD32 2653 (20071112) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:19:00 -0600
From: "Gregg Seidl" <k9kl at centurytel.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] unguyed Rohn 25
To: <TowerTalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <003101c82608$85a9f100$0301a8c0 at your9k1ay6x2a2>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Kinda reminds me of the famous last words......hey ya'll,watch this.
Gregg K9KL
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:16:53 -0500
From: Wayne Kline <w3ea at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
To: Michael Ryan <mryan001 at tampabay.rr.com>, <cqtestk4xs at aol.com>,
<towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <BAY109-W862EDFF772AEFA62BB7828F800 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Years ago Hams would say " If it stayed up last winter it was not BIG enough. I like the idea BUT i think they left out a key ingredient, The BIG support structure to support it. Today in age with the ridged practice of Code enforcement and the Litigious society, straying out side the MAnufactures engineered guidelines is IMHO risky on many levels. Not only the liability aspect but the danger to your self or those in close proximity. I to have installed and repaired towers of all types. and the issue here is not can I plant 40 ft of Rohn 25G with a tri band antenna TA33,A3, C3 ECT but is this a sound installation.
IMO while stacking 25 with no temp guys 30' it's the start of the pucker power area, as it sways around let alone 40 ft and then installing an antenna, drive pipe ,rotor and cabling . Can it be DONE yes, is it a good practice ... no.
I can only speak for my self. But When I speck out an installing , it's "BY THE BOOK "
let's be honest, can we push the envelope of the SQ footage on antenna load. Yup. BTDT. the flip side of this and I think that's what started this Thread. " I plan on doing this what's you opinion" It's NOT advisable to skimp in the Guy level spacing or material, the base size or the guy % placement from the base, or Free standing capabilities ect. Can it be done Heck yes, is it sound install NO.
Wayne W3EA
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today.
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:49:16 -0500
From: <w5ba at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] unguyed Rohn 25
To: TowerTalk at contesting.com, Gregg Seidl <k9kl at centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <20071113114916.L87CJ.60558.root at fepweb01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Think the proper quote, in East Texas at least, is: "hold my beer and watch this!"
...on topic, I've walked away from 60' of ~guyed~ 25G that only held a 3L 10M
cause 1) one of the 'guys' was gone altogether, 2) the remainder were loose enough to just as well not be there and 3) the 'anchors' were so loose that the extra temporary guy material I had brought with me for just such a contingency would not have had anything to hold against.
My late father-in-law was a funeral director. Driving off (from Iberia Parish as it happens) and leaving 60' of 25G that you've already bought and PayPal'd for sight unseen is a hell of a lot cheaper than anything he had in his price list.
Be careful folks.
73, Gerald W5BA
---- Gregg Seidl <k9kl at centurytel.net> wrote:
> Kinda reminds me of the famous last words......hey ya'll,watch this.
> Gregg K9KL
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 40
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