[TowerTalk] 'WWV halfwave vertical", was Vertical vs Beam

[Michael Ryan]

I was given a GAP Challenger a few years ago....lady wanted it out of her
yard.  The 'owner' had been invited to spend 15 - 20 years in a secure
facility, so she figured he would not longer need it.  I had not owned a
ground mounted vertical since I had been a novice some years ago ( during
the Grover Cleveland administration as well as I can remember...).  The GAP
instructions on the website said use THREE 25FT RADIALS.  I put those down,
though I had to slightly adjust one or maybe two of them about 6 inches
shorter.  The antenna appeared to work really ok on 40 which is the only
band I needed it for. I don't even care if it works on any other bands. But
I did try to add more radials in my belief that 'more is/was better',  Not
so...the antenna did not work well, not better as I had hoped, just was a
mess until I went back to the indicated 3 radials. It is about a 1/4 wave on
40 I think, standing upright. A wise man once said, "..if it ain't broke
don't fix it, and it will work with 3 25ft radials."  So I do... - Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richards
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 5:45 PM
To: jim Jarvis
Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 'WWV halfwave vertical", was Vertical vs Beam

Exactly my sentiments on these two points (see quote below)

1)   GAP has at least one antenna which employs three 25 foot 
"counterpoise" wires that are not connected to either side of the coax 
feeder... and is supposed to be of some help.  I talked to their sales 
guy at Dayton last year  and walked away unconvinced and bought another 
antenna.

2)   I understand and agree with your high and low band choice ...

Which leads me to this question:

Now.... on a small suburban lot... how small a beam, and how 
LITTLE/short/inexpensive  a mast, pole, tower, or other support would 
one want-need to get reasonably good performance  and cause the operator 
to think he was doing better than, say, using his big vertical or dipole 
(at say 35 feet high)  on the upper bands,  say on 20 M / 15M /10 M ?

In other words,  what small tribander yagi beam could one put on a on a 
light  tower or, even better,  a mast and lightweight rotator - and get 
reasonable satisfaction on the air ?    Not nirvana, but happiness.

If so, what might it look be -- I am asking how much is just enough - 
what would at the other end of the antenna spectrum from a 100 foot 
tower with the biggest M2 or SteppIR yagi beam on it.    What would be 
"good enough" (knowing it is not best) ?

For the purpose of my question, please assume all new parts, no used 
stuff, when estimating cost or suggesting what to use.   That would give 
me worst case cost scenario...

Thanks Loads.

            ==========  K8JHR  ==========

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
jim Jarvis wrote:

1)
>  From what I've read about vertical performance, the use of 
on-ground radials  not connected to the antenna, is of marginal value.
Possibly of  zero value.

2)
If the choice were a tribander @  50' vs. a vertical for 20... I'd
pick the beam, and go vertical for 40, 80, 160.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
_______________________________________________



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