[TowerTalk] Never before asked question

[Jim Thomson]

Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 05:27:40 -0500
From: n8de at thepoint.net
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Never before asked question

Petroleum Jelly ,.... Vasoline.... works well, but why worry ... just  
pour .. and 12 hours later, remove the wooden frame .. concrete will  
NOT be sticking YET.
73
Don
N8DE

##  I used 4x4's and  2 x 4's   around the top of  the hole  for my 
latest tower project.    The hole is hard clay, so no forms in the hole itself. 

##  once concrete cured, a few whacks, and all the  wood just came off..cleanly.
IMO, ur wasting your time for 2 x 4's and  4x4's.   However, if it's  huge sheets
of plywood, that is re-enforced  on the outside  for strength, I  would opt for
any kind of WAX on the inside.   Nothing will stick to wax.

##  On a similar note, on another concrete install I did back in 1981, a complete
wood form was built into the ground.  We screwed up, and the form was not strong enough! 
The form would start to bulge a bit as concrete was added.  [ concrete was mixer in a rented mixer].
The  'fix'  was to add an equal amount of backfill on the outside of the wood form, and pound it down.
This  juggling act went on from 8AM  till  11 PM  that night.   Of my 3 x helper's , one showed up,
one forgot, and was out of town, and the 3rd was in the hospital with appendix operation. The only
reason a form was used, was that I had my old 300 gal below ground oil tank removed, and the new
tower hole and tank hole had morphed into one..too big a hole.  

##  needless  to say, once all done, there was no way to remove the wood form  from the hole, since
it had been  completely back filled!   5  x yrs later, and the form still had not rotted in the ground.
That was the last time I ever mixed concrete in a mixer...no savings there at all..time wise.  With the
rental mixer  full to the top, that would provide concrete  for 1.5 x wheel barrows.   We dumped 4-6
wheelbarrows of concrete into the hole, and it didn't even cover the bottom of the hole!  We knew then,
this was gonna be a looong day. 

## A neighbor across the street told me back in 1997, that if no form used [ say hard clay]... and to keep
moisture from concrete  leaching out the sides of the hole, into the surrounding grnd, the 4 x sides of the
hole can be covered with 4-6 mil  plastic sheets. [ bottom of hole is never covered in plastic sheeting]. 
This trick works good, and stops the concrete  from drying out too fast..below grnd.   I saw on K1TTT's
notebook, another method used,  the 4 x sides of the hole are sprayed with water  [ fine spray], just prior
to  pumping the concrete in.  That method also works good.   On this latest project, I did neither, since the
4 x sides of the hole are fairly hard clay,  top to bottom, and moisture doesn't leach out the sides. 

##  My problem with any wood form that has to be removed...is the hole has to be huge to start with. 
You have to have enough room to get in there,  after 28 x days... and remove the wood form.  THEN
you have to carefully back fill it..and no more than 6" at a time, [called 'lifts'] and well pounded down.  
Even then, imo, you still end up with undisturbed soil  surrounding the concrete, which is what you don't want
on any self support tower. 

later... Jim   VE7RF