[TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: Fw: w7ekb & ground rods

Grant Saviers grants2 at pacbell.net
Tue Jan 20 12:26:39 EST 2015 

Most of the demo/hammer larger drill makers (Bosch, Makita, Hitachi, 
etc.) have ground rod driving attachments for $50 to $60.  I made one as 
Patrick suggests, but found the alloy of the broken off spline stub that 
fits the machine basically not a weldable alloy i.e. the weld 
fatigues.   After rewelding it a couple of times I spent the dollars for 
the real deal.  They are found at the commercial suppliers - White Cap 
etc.  Unlikely at a big box store, but available on the web.  e.g. 
http://www.cpotools.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Bosch-Site/default/Search-Show?q=ground%20rod%20driver

It still takes a few minutes at my QTH to get a 5/8 rod through the 
hard-pan layer down about 12-18" but then it is like driving through 
butter in the clay. (large Bosch demo/drill)

Grant KZ1W


On 1/20/2015 7:11 AM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
> I have 2 each factory made "T" post drivers, one old fashioned unit 
> and one with an internal spring to help lift the driver in preparation 
> for the next down stroke.  They help but... mine are two feet long so 
> won't drive the last 2 feet of rod and it is awkward to do the last 
> couple feet they will do as you are either on your knees or bent way 
> over.
>
> I read the English gentleman's reference and his is good stuff but in 
> my case I am using a demo hammer not a drill.  No rotary motion just 
> hammer blows and no drill type chuck so the referenced adapter is not 
> useable.  It is easy to make an adapter by using a chisel made for the 
> demo hammer, cutting off the chisel tip and welding on a piece of 
> conduit or pipe to form a cup so the "business end" of the tool does 
> not slip off the ground (earth) rod.
>
> Patrick
>
>
> On 1/19/2015 7:25 PM, Roger (K8RI) on TT wrote:
>> On 1/19/2015 1:44 PM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
>>
>> Make a "driver" which is a piece of pipe with a cap screwed on, or 
>> welded on handles.  creating an extension to get the top of the rod 
>> is not difficult.  No hammers needed so you don't have to worry about 
>> your aim.  I've busted off a few sledge hammer handles due to poor 
>> aim.  <:-))  Hitting the end of that ground rod with the sledge 
>> hammer handle doesn't take many repeats to separate handle from head.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Roger (K8RI)
>>
>>> Just in case my experience may help someone...
>>>
>>> The last 1/2, especially the last 1/4 of a ground rod is often much 
>>> harder to drive than the first part. I have used a sledge before 
>>> but... you can bend the rod and then it just seems to want to bend 
>>> more and not go deeper.  Use a length of metal tubing or pipe slid 
>>> over the end of the rod.  You can tape it in place or...  This keeps 
>>> the rod from bending when using a large hammer (sledge.)   I use two 
>>> lengths of pipe.  First one is about 2 1/2 ft long.  When that 
>>> starts going into the ground I switch to a shorter one about a foot 
>>> or so long.  I have sledges ranging from 8 lb to 14 lb and can swing 
>>> them pretty forcefully when needed (6'2" 215 lbs).  The pipe over 
>>> the rod thing works well for me.
>>>
>>> I also have an electric demo hammer (small electric jack hammer.) I 
>>> made a rod driving tool for it.  I used a piece of conduit driven 
>>> over a length of a regular chisel made to fit the hammer. Bought it 
>>> cheap at Harbor Freight and cut it in half. One end is used to make 
>>> the rod driver tool. I welded the conduit to the cut off chisel. 
>>> Being thrifty I ground the scrap piece with the chisel tip to the 
>>> shape of the part that mates with the hammer. My hammer doesn't 
>>> drive rods in really hard dirt very fast but takes little effort on 
>>> my part and with patience will do a terrific job. I have never 
>>> needed the pipe over the rod when driving with the electric hammer 
>>> but there could be a first time.
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>> Patrick  NJ5G
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/19/2015 9:19 AM, Jim Lux wrote:
>>>> On 1/18/15 9:53 PM, Kelly Taylor wrote:
>>>>> It seems to me a valid question to ask on this thread: Do you gain 
>>>>> anything
>>>>> by, for example, drilling a hole to get a ground rod deeper?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you think about it, the answer might not be so simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point of a ground rod is to maximize electrical contact with 
>>>>> the ground.
>>>>> If you have to drill 48 inches of an eight-foot rod and don't 
>>>>> employ some
>>>>> kind of conductive filler (concrete, bentonite, etc.) to bond the 
>>>>> rod to the
>>>>> rock, how much better off are you than just putting in a 48-inch 
>>>>> rod? Even
>>>>> if you do use bentonite, is rock a good connection?
>>>>>
>>>>> If that's the case, what would be wrong with cutting the 
>>>>> eight-foot rod into
>>>>> two 48-inch rods and driving them 96 inches apart?
>>>>>
>>>>> The point of eight- or ten-foot ground rods is to get eight or ten 
>>>>> feet of
>>>>> contact area, not necessarily to get eight or ten feet deep, yes?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and two short rods would work as well, if not better, than 1 
>>>> big rod.
>>>>
>>>> However, there is a potential depth related issue: soil moisture 
>>>> varies a lot in the first few feet, and in a lot of places, the 
>>>> chemical composition of the soil changes (top soil vs subsoil). 
>>>> That's not really addressed in the building code, though.
>>>>
>>>> For what it's worth, the reason the code expresses a preference for 
>>>> Ufer grounds(concrete encased grounding electrodes) is just this 
>>>> sort of problem.  A big block of concrete 20 feet long and a foot 
>>>> square is going to have a lot of contact area with the surrounding 
>>>> soil, in a lot of places, so local anomalies of dry or loosely 
>>>> compacted soil aren't going to be as big a problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Just curious on all this.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73, kelly
>>>>> ve4xt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/18/15 10:04 PM, "Bill Aycock" <billaycock at mediacombb.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Bill Aycock
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015
>>>>>> 7:23 PM
>>>>> To: Ken
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] w7ekb & ground rods
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken--
>>>>> I was once
>>>>>> told (Unofficially) by a power line guy that the length was more
>>>>> important
>>>>>> than depth, and a rod driven at an angle was often the only option
>>>>> when rock
>>>>>> was a problem.
>>>>> However, Mr. Murphy ruled against me and I only knew I had a
>>>>>> rock problem
>>>>> when I had only about 8" left to go.
>>>>> Bill--W4BSG
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original
>>>>>> Message-----
>>>>> From: Ken
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 7:00 PM
>>>>> To:
>>>>>> maflynn at theflynn.org
>>>>> Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk]
>>>>>> w7ekb & ground rods
>>>>>
>>>>> If I may ask, what¹s the ³appropriate tool² when you have
>>>>>> a rock layer 40²
>>>>> down?  i tried a hammer drill, waste of time.  I rented an
>>>>>> SDS-MAX hammer
>>>>> and I got one in all the way, four others only made it most of
>>>>>> the way.   So
>>>>> what is the recommendation?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken WA8JXM
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 18, 2015, at
>>>>>> 7:46 PM, Martin A Flynn <maflynn at theflynn.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ran this past one of
>>>>>> the code enforcement guys in the county. Surprising
>>>>>> response:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We make
>>>>>> you buy a UL listed panel board and breakers -  what makes you
>>>>>> think you
>>>>>> can build a grounding system that is equal to UL *and* be able
>>>>>> to prove it
>>>>>> in court if there is a problem? Buy the listed rod(s) and
>>>>>> drive them with
>>>>>> the appropriate
>>>>>> tool"
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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