[TowerTalk] Used Harnesses

Sat Nov 21 00:28:52 EST 2015

My comments and opinions only!

First comment:  No, mine is not for sale!  Wayyy too much liability and 
I do have a conscience.

Second comment:  I can certainly understand the desire and need for an 
inexpensive climbing harness.  In many countries with import duties and 
VAT they can cost double, or more, than here in the states.  Better hope 
we don't lose the dollar as the international standard!

I have a very good harness. It's the kind with padded straps you can sit 
in, complete with fall arrest gear, fairly expensive, BUT, way out of 
certification. It looks like new and were I still climbing, I'd not 
hesitate to use it.

OTOH: Even if a person is willing to sell a used harness in good shape, 
In many, if not most cases it is difficult, if not impossible for the 
purchaser to sign his, or her rights away and they can not sign their 
heirs rights away.  So, unless the present owner is worth little 
financially there is the potential to lose everything you have.  I have 
never heard of it happening, but I'd not risk it in today's sue-happy 
society.

For the purchaser, insurance might be an issue.  I don't know what it's 
like in other countries, but here in the US, getting hurt with used, 
out-of-certification safety gear might invalidate your insurance.

It's a catch 22.  People who need good safety gear, but find it's either 
unavailable, or out of their ability to pay range, have few choices, all 
of which could have undesirable consequences.  The best solution where 
new is either unavailable, or unaffordable is to get a used harness in 
good shape, if one can be found and IF the risks are understood.  Which 
is worse?  Going with out, or going with used and inspected equipment?  
Saying we'd never purchase used safety equipment may not be an option 
for some (or many).

Used and out-of-certification is very risky from both a safety and 
insurance standpoint.  These harnesses are made of synthetic materials 
which As Far As I Know (AFAIK) slowly loses strength. IOW, It can still 
look like new yet be a fragile safety hazard. With some limitations, "I 
believe" some equipment can be inspected and re-certified. (Unlikely to 
be inexpensive) Then, there is how insurance companies look at the use 
of  used and out-of-certification equipment. The injury may not have 
been caused by the equipment. It may have even been limited by the 
equipment, but they point out the person was willing to risk their life 
on old, used equipment.  45 years ago, they weren't looking for excuses 
to get out of paying.

I have am old, padded, free floating, leather plus mono-filament Klien 
safety belt with pole strap, from when they were considered the ultimate 
in safety equipment which would make it over 45 years old.  A time when 
you could loan safety equipment after making sure the recipient knew how 
to use it.  I'd still trust it, but now we know the harness is much 
safer and more desirable even if that belt will (has) out last(ed) 3 
synthetic harnesses.

At present I can say that I would never, ever, buy, or use one of the 
used nylon safety belts that often show up at swaps.  When I was a tech, 
the company would destroy all Nylon safety belts and harnesses, then 
replace them with new, every year!  Yes, the belts were required in many 
operations (saw a lot of use) in a hostile environment  (Semiconductor 
chemical plant). Beyond horrendous liability, they had OSHA and MIOSHA 
to contend with.  (huge fines for non compliance)

I have well over $500 (probably > $1000) in safety equipment that I can 
no longer use.  It will be destroyed when I check out even if it would 
be safe to use.  Seems like a real waste, if it could be certified.  We 
talk down to the use of climbing belts, but they were considered 
necessary for years.   What's better? An old Nylon harness, or a good 
climbing belt?  It's easy to make decisions when it's readily available 
and the cost of safety gear is close to reasonable / affordable.  Not so 
easy when the choices are poor and none.

BTW I do know of one serious injury that was likely caused by using good 
safety equipment.  He was dismantling a tower. 25G I think.  With 30 
feet left, it broke over at the base.  (no temp, or inadequate guys) He 
couldn't get free from the tower before it hit the ground.  Could he 
have gotten free and avoided major injuries that will plague him the 
rest of his life?  It's any one's guess.   I've fallen that far, once 
with only a broken arm. Once with no serious injuries, or even bruises, 
just knocked the wind out of me. OTOH it sure was difficult to breathe 
for a while.  At first I couldn't breathe at all. About the time I was 
on my way out, a small breath came in.  I woke, breathing fine. My chest 
ached for 10 or 15 minutes and that was it.  No, it was not off a tower.

73

Roger  (K8RI)

On 11/20/2015 12:49 PM, Joe K2UF wrote:
>   My two cents.....  I would never buy any used climbing equipment.
>
> 73  Joe K2UF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> Wilson
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2015 12:13 PM
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Used Harnesses
>
>
>
> "Used, cheap, save my life, in the same sentence?"
>
> Can anyone find reports of harnesses that failed, new or used?
> For that matter, I'd like to see reports of harness that actually caught
> people who fell.
> Does anyone know of bad or unreliable NEW harnesses?
> WL
>
>
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73

Roger (K8RI)

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