[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 152, Issue 108
Alfred Watson
w4abw at aol.com
Tue Sep 1 10:55:39 EDT 2015
I used that small black rope that seems very common. I got it from GigaParts in Huntsville.
I used it to guy my HyGain 80-6 vertical they came out with a few years ago. Guyed in 4 places and I used the DXE vertical antenna guy ring and their 18 inch guy rods. Very sturdy so far.
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-request <towertalk-request at contesting.com>
To: towertalk <towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 10:35 pm
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 152, Issue 108
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Bulk] Re: Guying a vertical...???
(Roger (K8RI) on TT)
2. Re: weather station on tower? (Don W7WLL)
3. Re:
weather station on tower? (Don W7WLL)
4. Re: [Bulk] Re: Guying a
vertical...??? (Radio K0HB)
5. Re: weather station on tower?
(Ken)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message:
1
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:10:35 -0400
From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT"
<K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net>
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re:
[TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: Guying a vertical...???
Message-ID:
<55E4D0DB.90109 at tm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8;
format=flowed
I've mentioned before about using nylon guyed verticals in 40
meter
phased arrays back in the 60s and 70s.. I never though to photograph
them, but if we had some wind right after they went up, they would be
laying
down the next morning. I just stood them back up and tightened
the guys.
More wind and they would develop a drastic lean making them
non functional
even if they weren't flat. After several days, most of
the stretch was gone,
but the Nylon rope had taken on a whole new set of
characteristics. It was
now, stiff, dull colored, and rough. All nylon
lines did this whether
subjected to the extremes of guying the
verticals, or the end lines for wire
antennas. It happened with line
just coiled up and left on a trailer outside,
but the lower layers (more
protected) kept the original characteristics
longer. IR? Rain?
temperature changes? Don't know, but nylon made a very
poor guy line
They were handy for field day, but you basically had to
retention those
lines every hour or two. As others have said, early on the
stuff was
like a rubber band. The double braid Dacron has little stretch,
lasts
for years, and it's cheap.
Phillystran is better, but costs a lot
more. All the guys on my 100'
45G are Phillystran.
73
Roger
(K8RI)
On 8/31/2015 5:12 PM, Grant Saviers wrote:
> As a many year sailor
and power boater, Patrick's advice is right on.
> In fact there are web posts
of nylon guyed structures on the ground
> with intact guys nylon attached.
Nylon will stretch well more than
> 30% before breaking and has considerable
stretch at 10% of break
> strength. (do the trig for guys!) The amount of
energy stored in a
> tensioned nylon rope is awesome, as I saw a 1 1/2" hawser
break under
> load. Folks have lost fingers when nylon rope was used in a tug
of
> war and broke and much worse has happened to deck hands hit with the
>
recoil of a breaking tow line.
>
> The Synthetic Textiles lines are great, I
used 1000's of ft over the
> past 30 years. Usually they wear out at some rub
point, I not seen a
> UV failure.
>
> If you need more capacity than the
5/16" from S.T. then look at West
> Marine and other chandlers for low stretch
lines, usually available to
> 5/8" and larger. The really good Kevlar and
better stuff ($$$)
> stretches less than steel wire rope.
>
> btw line for
gin poles is better in low stretch since for tall towers
> the load can get to
bouncing around on nylon.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
> On 8/31/2015 13:26 PM, Patrick
Greenlee wrote:
>> Nylon is used on boats because it stretches like a rubber
band and
>> when used for an anchor line does not transmit much shock to the
deck
>> hardware. For hoisting sails (halyards) and for sheets (lines used
>> to control sails) Dacron is used for its minimal stretch (desirable
>>
characteristic.) Steel cables (wire ropes) are sometimes spliced to
>> rope
"tails" for better manual handling characteristics and the rope
>> of choice
is Dacron.
>>
>> Nylon is useful for towing a boat because of it stretchiness
not
>> putting shock loads on deck hardware. Great heat is generated by
>>
inter-fiber friction when the nylon is stretched and when wet the
>> nylon
shows its heat by copious quantities of steam. Failure to let
>> the tow rope
contact the water for cooling purposes can result in
>> melting the nylon rope
leading to catastrophic failure.
>>
>> I have considerable experience as a rag
sailor and 10 years in
>> maritime search and rescue. I advise folks wanting
rope for guys to
>> avoid nylon if it will be loaded such that it stretches
and recovers
>> as in variable wind. Dacron is a far better choice.
>>
>>
Patrick NJ5G
>>
>> On 8/31/2015 12:08 PM, Bryan Swadener via TowerTalk
wrote:
>>> In other words, "double-braided Nylon" rope.The Nylon material does
>>> well with UV.The double-braided construction is bestto limit
>>>
stretch. It is used a lot on sailboats.You'll find it in a marine
>>> supply
store.McMaster-Carr sells it as well.
>>> I've used it for decades to support
wire andvertical antennas.
>>> vy 73 es gl,Bryan WA7PRC
>>>
>>>
>>> >
In a message dated 8/30/2015 8:11:33 A.M. Central Daylight
>>> Time,
>>>>
co8dm at frcuba.co.cu writes:
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to get the "550
Paracord"...it is not available here
>>>> but will
>>>> see what i
can do to get it...
>>>>
>>>> I read/hear many people used in verticals
and it is strong and UV
>>>> resistant
>>>> and very cheap compare
with Dacron and Kevlar.
>>>>
>>>> I have looking on ground, water and air
here and it is not
>>>> available...unbelievable but it is the true
!!!
>>>>
>>>> 73....Douglas, CO8DM
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>>
TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>
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>>
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>
>
_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
>
TowerTalk at contesting.com
>
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--
73
Roger
(K8RI)
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Message:
2
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 16:22:46 -0700
From: "Don W7WLL"
<w7wll at arrl.net>
To: "Towertalk" <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re:
[TowerTalk] weather station on tower?
Message-ID:
<F4FEB95DA6424CEB9310D15401A923B6 at DonPC>
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
The NOAA/NWS standard
for an anemometer is at the top of a 33 foot tower.
Winds going over or
around hills, buildings, trees, whatever, will be
stronger than if not
disturbed by upstream objects. Also, winds usually
increase with elevation.
The affect an obstruction would have on wind speed
would depend on the size of
the obstruction and the speed of the wind. Best
to avoid any obstruction if
possible. NOAA/NWS sees wind reports from non
NWS locations that can be 100's
of feet in the air on towers or bridges.
Their feeling is that as long as they
know the elevation above the ground,
the data is useful to them. To get wind
reports that are most accurate, NWS
suggests you should stick to a 33 foot
tower if possible, anemometer on the
top. As we all know this height is not
common or practical for most home
weather stations.
So, placement on a
regular old ham tower where the beams are on top could
mean that the
anemometer could be at the top of the mast (bit difficult to
service if the
need arises) or side mounted out 3 feet or so at some level).
In my case, the
anemometer is mounted above the temp, rain and humidity
sensors (the latter 3
in a solar shield) on a mast in one of the standard
tripod mounts at the very
west end of my roof (approximately 35 feet above
ground) with the anemometer 7
feet above the roof. There may be some
up-effects now and then but from
various measurements at other places and at
the tower (some 150 from the
anemometer) the differences in wind speed seem
to be negligible.
Always
keep in mind the ability to get at the wx equipment if something
happens (a
condx I run into about once a year).
In summary, from experience and from
input from discussions with NOAA/NWS
expects on siting, the difference in any
wind speed relative to your concern
would not be worth worrying about as long
as the anemometer location is in
free air space.
By the way, mine is a Peet
station, hard-wired, but nothing wrong with
wireless. Stay away from Oregon
Scientific, experience by many people down
here in the Central OR coast area
has been they don't hold up well (read as
corrode fast and fail). Their indoor
stuff seems to be fine. Davis has a
good reputation.
See my reporting
under Yachats at
http://www.ocrg.org/telemetry_feed/ocrgwx.html, used by
MesoWest and NWS.
Don W7WLL
-----Original Message-----
From:
ag6v at whidbey.com
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 2:49 PM
To:
towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] weather station on tower?
Hi
All -- I'm thinking of putting up a weather station at my QTH, and
connecting
it with WUnderground.com (as in "W"eather Underground).
I want to know wind
speed and direction at or near my tower and _ON_
the tower will give the most
accurate data, it seems.
Questions:
* anyone notice interaction/RFI issues
of a USB-connected weather
station on a tower or close to it?
* what
experiences do you all have?
* the WUnderground.com site has a number of
suggested weather station
packages -- any others you like?
73,
----
Donna
Hinshaw
AG6V
ARRL Life Member
SKCC 6933T
CWOPS
911
_______________________________________________
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TowerTalk at contesting.com
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015
16:50:39 -0700
From: "Don W7WLL" <w7wll at arrl.net>
To:
<ag6v at whidbey.com>, <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] weather
station on tower?
Message-ID:
<013A8C1995264F5AB3373515FAFC8A55 at DonPC>
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed; charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
Forgot the
questions.
Like Dave I put toroids in the normal places as he did and have
not had a
problem, and my RFhs no effect on the reports being sent from my
Peet system
via a 2M packet xmitter to an intake point up the coast.
I
agree with Dave on a USB wireless signal, it is limited, pay attention to
manufacturer comments and recommendations.
My marine traffic AIS receiving
and reporting station runs 24/7 and have had
no problem with RF affecting it
either.
And I have, on occasion, run my Alpha at its capability.
Good
luck,
Don W7WLL
-----Original Message-----
From: ag6v at whidbey.com
Sent:
Monday, August 31, 2015 2:49 PM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject:
[TowerTalk] weather station on tower?
Hi All -- I'm thinking of putting up a
weather station at my QTH, and
connecting it with WUnderground.com (as in
"W"eather Underground).
I want to know wind speed and direction at or near my
tower and _ON_
the tower will give the most accurate data, it
seems.
Questions:
* anyone notice interaction/RFI issues of a USB-connected
weather
station on a tower or close to it?
* what experiences do you all
have?
* the WUnderground.com site has a number of suggested weather
station
packages -- any others you like?
73,
----
Donna
Hinshaw
AG6V
ARRL Life Member
SKCC 6933T
CWOPS
911
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk
mailing
list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015
00:58:30 -0000
From: "Radio K0HB" <kzerohb at gmail.com>
To:
<towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: Guying a
vertical...???
Message-ID:
<EEF32EFFF68346229E55074920515B6E at PICKETPOST>
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed; charset="UTF-8";
reply-type=response
This post alone is
worth every dime that I paid to join TowerTalk!
(Well, OK, I got in for free,
but it still is a very valuable post. Thanks,
Patrick)
73, de Hans,
K0HB
--
"Just a boy and his radio"?
--
Proud Member of:
. ARRL -
http://www.arrl.org
. RSGB - http://www.rsgb.org
. A1 Operators -
http://www.arrl.org/a-1-op
. Minnesota Wireless contesters -
http://www.W0AA.org
. Arizona Outlaws contesters -
http://www.arizonaoutlaws.net
. Twin City DX Assn - http://www.tcdxa.org
.
Minnesota Amateur Radio Technical Society - http://www.mn-arts.org/
. Lake
Vermilion DX Assn - http://www.lvdxa.org
. Royal Naval Amateur Radio Society -
http://www.rnars.org.uk/
. SOC - http://www.qsl.net/soc
. CW Operators Club ?
http://www.cwops.org
. SKCC - http://www.skccgroup.com/
--
On 8/31/2015
13:26 PM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
> Nylon is used on boats because it stretches
like a rubber band and when
> used for an anchor line does not transmit much
shock to the deck hardware.
> For hoisting sails (halyards) and for sheets
(lines used to control sails)
> Dacron is used for its minimal stretch
(desirable characteristic.) Steel
> cables (wire ropes) are sometimes spliced
to rope "tails" for better
> manual handling characteristics and the rope of
choice is Dacron.
>
> Nylon is useful for towing a boat because of it
stretchiness not putting
> shock loads on deck hardware. Great heat is
generated by inter-fiber
> friction when the nylon is stretched and when wet
the nylon shows its heat
> by copious quantities of steam. Failure to let the
tow rope contact the
> water for cooling purposes can result in melting the
nylon rope leading to
> catastrophic failure.
>
> I have considerable
experience as a rag sailor and 10 years in maritime
> search and rescue. I
advise folks wanting rope for guys to avoid nylon if
> it will be loaded such
that it stretches and recovers as in variable wind.
> Dacron is a far better
choice.
>
> Patrick NJ5G
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015
23:28:15 -0400
From: Ken <wa8jxm at gmail.com>
To: ag6v at whidbey.com,
towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] weather station on
tower?
Message-ID: <55E51B4F.8070405 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8; format=flowed
FWIW, I have a Davis Vantage Pro II, wireless.
It's been running about
6 years now and I would not do anything different. I
did have to
change the battery for the first time in the external unit (Davis
says 2
years is more normal!)
The only recurring issue I have is debris
collecting and blocking the
rain gauge.
From what I have read, the Davis
units last longer than most.
73, Ken WA8JXM
On 8/31/15 5:49 PM,
ag6v at whidbey.com wrote:
> Hi All -- I'm thinking of putting up a weather
station at my QTH, and
> connecting it with WUnderground.com (as in "W"eather
Underground).
> I want to know wind speed and direction at or near my tower
and _ON_
> the tower will give the most accurate data, it seems.
>
>
Questions:
> * anyone notice interaction/RFI issues of a USB-connected
weather
> station on a tower or close to it?
> * what experiences do you all
have?
> * the WUnderground.com site has a number of suggested weather
station
> packages -- any others you like?
>
> 73,
> ----
> Donna
Hinshaw
> AG6V
> ARRL Life Member
> SKCC 6933T
> CWOPS 911
>
>
_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
>
TowerTalk at contesting.com
>
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
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of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 152, Issue
108
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