[TowerTalk] How far does RFI travel?

Mon May 9 14:00:50 EDT 2016

TEMPEST is THE  word.

*TEMPEST*is aNational Security Agency 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>specification 
and aNATO <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO>certification^[1] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29#cite_note-USAF140107011-1> 
^[2] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29#cite_note-NIA1981-2> 
referring to spying on information systems through leaking emanations, 
including unintentional radio or electrical signals, sounds, and 
vibrations.^[3] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29#cite_note-3> 
TEMPEST covers both methods to spy upon others and also how to shield 
equipment against such spying. The protection efforts are also known as 
emission security (EMSEC), which is a subset ofcommunications security 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_security>(COMSEC).^[4] 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29#cite_note-4>

In the olden days before the big rocks cooled (late 60's early 70's) we 
used to put an AM broadcast receiver tuned off station near a computer 
and you could listen to it run a program. Nested loops were interesting 
to hear. Without meeting TEMPEST standards a computer's OS could be 
identified at a considerable distance and data could be likewise 
deciphered. I was in the TEMPEST world in the 80's where custom built 
IBM compatible PC's meeting TEMPEST requirements were not high 
production items. Patrick NJ5G

On 5/9/2016 12:14 PM, Mike Fahmie via TowerTalk wrote:
> Long ago, I was asked by a police officer friend to carry my portable HF receiver by a building that they believed housed a stolen mini-computer.  They hoped that the character/rhythm of the RFI would match that of another identical machine running the same OS.  I did, but did not hear the noise they were hoping for.
> They were both disappointed and relieved since the next hurdle would have been to establish the validity of the search since they didn't have enough PC (probable cause) to obtain a warrant.  This was back in the days when, in California, warrant-less searches utilizing sensors more sensitive than human senses (ie, drug sniffing dogs) were at risk of being thrown out of court.-Mike-
>
>   
>        From: jimlux <jimlux at earthlink.net>
>   To: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>; Ray Benny <rayn6vr at cableone.net>; rfi at contesting.com; towertalk at contesting.com
>   Sent: Monday, May 9, 2016 9:43 AM
>   Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] How far does RFI travel?
>     
> They are plenty interested in busting grow operations. It's more about whether RFI is probable cause for a search warrant.  It is not.  You could get the FCC to send them a letter, maybe, but RFI is not a state law issue ( i think its good thing that federal law preempts state and local for RF)
>
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone-------- Original message --------From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net> Date: 5/9/2016  7:32 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: Ray Benny <rayn6vr at cableone.net>, rfi at contesting.com,     towertalk at contesting.com Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk]  How far does RFI travel?
> One thing I noticed when driving around with a PC+ USB spectrum analyzer
> to find a new QTH, was how much quieter neighborhoods with in ground
> utilities were from those with the old "poles and pigs" distribution
> systems.  Another observation was that big HV transmission systems were
> quieter than expected when a few hundred yards from them.  My conclusion
> is the buried systems shield and choke the rf, just as happens with
> buried coax.   IMO, much of the rf trash we hear is generated by bad
> devices and then radiated from pole systems.  60 acres NW of me were
> recently developed, 20 homes on 2 acre lots plus open space and
> underground utilities and so far so good.  A plasma TV SW from me is an
> S4 problem, but I haven't tracked it down.  Hopefully, the new
> subdivison near you will be all buried.
>
> Several local hams here are seriously affected S9+ all bands by large
> grow lights for recreational substances that are clearly not FCC
> compliant re radiated and conducted emissions.  The distance can be
> significant - 1/4 mile or more.  Most are probably illegal but of no
> interest to law enforcement given trends of the new laws.  The FCC
> either "doesn't have the resources" or "won't investigate where illegal
> activity may be happening without law enforcement present". A perfect
> Catch22.  In the past, when growing was clearly illegal, law enforcement
> used AM radios to find the grow sites.
>
> Grant KZ1W
> Redmond, WA
>
> On 5/9/2016 0:21 AM, Ray Benny wrote:
>>     body {height: 100%; color:#000000; font-size:12pt; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;}This may seem a strange question to ask and there maybe many answers, so I will try to be specific as to what I am looking for.
>> A new subdivision is being built about 1/4 mile away, east and north east, towards EU. The homes are custom build on 1 acre parcels. What I am trying to find out: can I expect my noise level to go up as more homes are built?
>> I spend a lot of time on 160m. I have a RX 4SQ and 2 wire beverage, and I do hear a number of small RFI noises in a number of directions from nearby homes in my rural area. Most of the time they do not cause any long term problems. My thought is that when new housing comes in, new and more electronic gadgets will be inside that can generate more RFI.
>> I have done some RFI tracking, mostly electric fences and leaking/defective power line hardware, but these sources are usually very distinctive and usually easy to fine. Finding wall wart, LED, etc RFI is harder to find, especially on someone else's property. Another way to ask my questions: "Does this type of RFI noise typically radiate more than several hundred feet"?
>> Any thoughts or experiences are welcome.
>> Tnx & 73,
>> Ray, N6VR
>> Chino Valley, AZ
>>
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