[TowerTalk] How far does RFI travel?

Mon May 9 14:14:33 EDT 2016

My comment to the original poster.
I had a new housing development go in near me and no RFI problems developed.
The power feeding the new development is all underground.  Mine is not, 
we have
power poles.  I was worried but so far so good.
I would be optimistic, you will most likely have no problems...........

73,
Bob
K6UJ

On 5/9/16 11:00 AM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
> TEMPEST is THE  word.
>
> *TEMPEST*is aNational Security Agency 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>specification 
> and aNATO <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO>certification^[1] 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29#cite_note-USAF140107011-1> 
> ^[2] 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29#cite_note-NIA1981-2> 
> referring to spying on information systems through leaking emanations, 
> including unintentional radio or electrical signals, sounds, and 
> vibrations.^[3] 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29#cite_note-3> 
> TEMPEST covers both methods to spy upon others and also how to shield 
> equipment against such spying. The protection efforts are also known 
> as emission security (EMSEC), which is a subset ofcommunications 
> security 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_security>(COMSEC).^[4] 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29#cite_note-4>
>
> In the olden days before the big rocks cooled (late 60's early 70's) 
> we used to put an AM broadcast receiver tuned off station near a 
> computer and you could listen to it run a program. Nested loops were 
> interesting to hear. Without meeting TEMPEST standards a computer's OS 
> could be identified at a considerable distance and data could be 
> likewise deciphered. I was in the TEMPEST world in the 80's where 
> custom built IBM compatible PC's meeting TEMPEST requirements were not 
> high production items. Patrick NJ5G
>
>
> On 5/9/2016 12:14 PM, Mike Fahmie via TowerTalk wrote:
>> Long ago, I was asked by a police officer friend to carry my portable 
>> HF receiver by a building that they believed housed a stolen 
>> mini-computer.  They hoped that the character/rhythm of the RFI would 
>> match that of another identical machine running the same OS.  I did, 
>> but did not hear the noise they were hoping for.
>> They were both disappointed and relieved since the next hurdle would 
>> have been to establish the validity of the search since they didn't 
>> have enough PC (probable cause) to obtain a warrant.  This was back 
>> in the days when, in California, warrant-less searches utilizing 
>> sensors more sensitive than human senses (ie, drug sniffing dogs) 
>> were at risk of being thrown out of court.-Mike-
>>
>>          From: jimlux <jimlux at earthlink.net>
>>   To: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>; Ray Benny 
>> <rayn6vr at cableone.net>; rfi at contesting.com; towertalk at contesting.com
>>   Sent: Monday, May 9, 2016 9:43 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] How far does RFI travel?
>>     They are plenty interested in busting grow operations. It's more 
>> about whether RFI is probable cause for a search warrant. It is not.  
>> You could get the FCC to send them a letter, maybe, but RFI is not a 
>> state law issue ( i think its good thing that federal law preempts 
>> state and local for RF)
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE 
>> smartphone-------- Original message --------From: Grant Saviers 
>> <grants2 at pacbell.net> Date: 5/9/2016  7:32 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: Ray 
>> Benny <rayn6vr at cableone.net>, rfi at contesting.com,     
>> towertalk at contesting.com Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk]  How far 
>> does RFI travel?
>> One thing I noticed when driving around with a PC+ USB spectrum analyzer
>> to find a new QTH, was how much quieter neighborhoods with in ground
>> utilities were from those with the old "poles and pigs" distribution
>> systems.  Another observation was that big HV transmission systems were
>> quieter than expected when a few hundred yards from them.  My conclusion
>> is the buried systems shield and choke the rf, just as happens with
>> buried coax.   IMO, much of the rf trash we hear is generated by bad
>> devices and then radiated from pole systems.  60 acres NW of me were
>> recently developed, 20 homes on 2 acre lots plus open space and
>> underground utilities and so far so good.  A plasma TV SW from me is an
>> S4 problem, but I haven't tracked it down.  Hopefully, the new
>> subdivison near you will be all buried.
>>
>> Several local hams here are seriously affected S9+ all bands by large
>> grow lights for recreational substances that are clearly not FCC
>> compliant re radiated and conducted emissions.  The distance can be
>> significant - 1/4 mile or more.  Most are probably illegal but of no
>> interest to law enforcement given trends of the new laws.  The FCC
>> either "doesn't have the resources" or "won't investigate where illegal
>> activity may be happening without law enforcement present". A perfect
>> Catch22.  In the past, when growing was clearly illegal, law enforcement
>> used AM radios to find the grow sites.
>>
>> Grant KZ1W
>> Redmond, WA
>>
>> On 5/9/2016 0:21 AM, Ray Benny wrote:
>>>     body {height: 100%; color:#000000; font-size:12pt; 
>>> font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;}This may seem a strange 
>>> question to ask and there maybe many answers, so I will try to be 
>>> specific as to what I am looking for.
>>> A new subdivision is being built about 1/4 mile away, east and north 
>>> east, towards EU. The homes are custom build on 1 acre parcels. What 
>>> I am trying to find out: can I expect my noise level to go up as 
>>> more homes are built?
>>> I spend a lot of time on 160m. I have a RX 4SQ and 2 wire beverage, 
>>> and I do hear a number of small RFI noises in a number of directions 
>>> from nearby homes in my rural area. Most of the time they do not 
>>> cause any long term problems. My thought is that when new housing 
>>> comes in, new and more electronic gadgets will be inside that can 
>>> generate more RFI.
>>> I have done some RFI tracking, mostly electric fences and 
>>> leaking/defective power line hardware, but these sources are usually 
>>> very distinctive and usually easy to fine. Finding wall wart, LED, 
>>> etc RFI is harder to find, especially on someone else's property. 
>>> Another way to ask my questions: "Does this type of RFI noise 
>>> typically radiate more than several hundred feet"?
>>> Any thoughts or experiences are welcome.
>>> Tnx & 73,
>>> Ray, N6VR
>>> Chino Valley, AZ
>>>
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