[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 166, Issue 57

Tue Oct 18 07:48:32 EDT 2016

I disagree with Grant.  I lifted the bottom parts of three different 200 footers, one Rohn 55 and two Rohn 65 with the K0XG rings on them.  The Rohn 55 bottom was 60 feet with one ring.  The Rohn 65s were 130 feet with two rings on each.  No problems with a good crane op.  We did  not hook to the rings of course and just in case things went wacky I wired the top and the bottom of the rings together, which proved to be unnecessary.

The whole affair was picked and set on a K0XG rotating base.  I used three other people to help since the guys were the stiff Polyrod rather than Phillystran.  With a 60 footer, in a pinch, you could get by with just one person.  This worked so well I will probably use this method on my planned 90 footer of Rohn 55 with two rings out in KH6 if I can get a crane into the area.

Bill K4XS/KH7XS

> Since my largest tower went up with a commercial tower company who
> builds 400' plus towers, and who required the base be managed, I would
> say there are definite disagreements about this.   When lifting sections
> with rings off supports, it can't be done safely and reliably, no matter
> the skill of the crane op.  A plain stick of Rohn 25/45/55 is a
> different animal.  Note the thread origin is about tower sections with
> rings already mounted.
>
> Grant KZ1W

-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-request <towertalk-request at contesting.com>
To: towertalk <towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 18, 2016 3:38 am
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 166, Issue 57

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Today's Topics:

   1. use of a basket when antenna just above a K0XG ring (StellarCAT)
   2. Re: Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while being
      lifted (Steve Maki)
   3. Re: Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while being
      lifted (Grant Saviers)
   4. Re: Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged while being
      lifted (Steve Maki)
   5. Re: Voltage at ends of yogi parasitic elements? (Rob Katz)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 20:42:08 -0400
From: "StellarCAT" <rxdesign at ssvecnet.com>
To: "tower" <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] use of a basket when antenna just above a K0XG
	ring
Message-ID: <0BE47700B55648139D388148C18EFAAC at RXDesignDell>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"

The crane rep came out to check out my site ? per my request ? everything is a go. I asked him about the use of a basket explaining and showing him the rings and their arms ... and the fact that the antennas really need to be all the way up against the tower ? he agreed the basket would not allow that. 

just an FYI for anyone considering this. Again this was when a guy was ?in the way? ? not in open space on the tower. 

Gary 
K9RX

ran a trencher for 7 hours yesterday ? 800# monster ... it cut a 4? width ? JUST ... and the corex 4? tubing is 5? in diameter. SO I had to go back over it all again (this is VERY hard packed clay ? like rock ? oh and rock as well) ... that was fun trying to pull the beast to the side so that it would cut additional width as opposed to its desire to just stay in the middle. 

today was spent running HL, coax, and control cables through 140? of the Corex ... managed 8 cables (including one run each 7/8?, 5/8?, 1/2? HL and one coax) and couldn?t pull any more through ... I?ll need to hook up the tractor to get the remaining 3 cables through. 

tomorrow is pulling 5 more runs from that tower to the main tower ... HL, coax, control cables. 

POOPED. Friday is my day ... coming fast now. 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 21:55:00 -0400
From: Steve Maki <lists at oakcom.org>
To: towertalk <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged
	while being lifted
Message-ID: <322dad7d-46c9-5955-0d09-1fc6055465a9 at oakcom.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

On 10/17/2016 11:53 AM, john at kk9a.com wrote:

> The weight is irrelevant.  A skilled crane operator can move the boom as
> it is being lifted leaving the section on the ground as a pivot point.
> Of  course if someone wishes to build a slide or use a loader to move
> the base as it is being lifted that is perfectly fine, but I won't be
> doing this.
>
> John KK9A

I agree. A good operator has no problem at all with this scenario, as 
long as the crane is sized properly and can be positioned properly.

It's just a non-issue.

-Steve K8LX

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 19:39:27 -0700
From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>
To: Steve Maki <lists at oakcom.org>, towertalk
	<towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged
	while being lifted
Message-ID: <58058B5F.2020707 at pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Since my largest tower went up with a commercial tower company who 
builds 400' plus towers, and who required the base be managed, I would 
say there are definite disagreements about this.   When lifting sections 
with rings off supports, it can't be done safely and reliably, no matter 
the skill of the crane op.  A plain stick of Rohn 25/45/55 is a 
different animal.  Note the thread origin is about tower sections with 
rings already mounted.

Grant KZ1W

On 10/17/2016 18:55 PM, Steve Maki wrote:
> On 10/17/2016 11:53 AM, john at kk9a.com wrote:
>
>> The weight is irrelevant.  A skilled crane operator can move the boom as
>> it is being lifted leaving the section on the ground as a pivot point.
>> Of  course if someone wishes to build a slide or use a loader to move
>> the base as it is being lifted that is perfectly fine, but I won't be
>> doing this.
>>
>> John KK9A
>
> I agree. A good operator has no problem at all with this scenario, as 
> long as the crane is sized properly and can be positioned properly.
>
> It's just a non-issue.
>
> -Steve K8LX
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 22:55:07 -0400
From: Steve Maki <lists at oakcom.org>
To: towertalk <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Legs of a 60' piece of tower being dragged
	while being lifted
Message-ID: <e0ff1078-6076-4a42-4164-a75bb5c48226 at oakcom.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Hmm. All I can say is we install much larger pieces of assembled tower 
than R55 (and 50' pieces of monopole weighing many thousands of pounds 
for that matter), and crane operators seem to have no problem picking 
the tower from the top end and standing it up straight without dragging 
it. It seems to be second nature with these guys.

I can't quite visualize how rings complicate things that much if you 
have the base on the ground and the tower tipped up on a support 2/3 or 
so up the tower.

-Steve K8LX

On 10/17/2016 22:39 PM, Grant Saviers wrote:

> Since my largest tower went up with a commercial tower company who
> builds 400' plus towers, and who required the base be managed, I would
> say there are definite disagreements about this.   When lifting sections
> with rings off supports, it can't be done safely and reliably, no matter
> the skill of the crane op.  A plain stick of Rohn 25/45/55 is a
> different animal.  Note the thread origin is about tower sections with
> rings already mounted.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
> On 10/17/2016 18:55 PM, Steve Maki wrote:
>> On 10/17/2016 11:53 AM, john at kk9a.com wrote:
>>
>>> The weight is irrelevant.  A skilled crane operator can move the boom as
>>> it is being lifted leaving the section on the ground as a pivot point.
>>> Of  course if someone wishes to build a slide or use a loader to move
>>> the base as it is being lifted that is perfectly fine, but I won't be
>>> doing this.
>>>
>>> John KK9A
>>
>> I agree. A good operator has no problem at all with this scenario, as
>> long as the crane is sized properly and can be positioned properly.
>>
>> It's just a non-issue.
>>
>> -Steve K8LX

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 11:52:13 -0400
From: Rob Katz <rob.katz at thelegacycenter.com>
To: Hardy Landskov <n7rt at cox.net>
Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Voltage at ends of yogi parasitic elements?
Message-ID: <485ABA69-14A4-488F-88AC-B3765AC6424F at GeekLeadership.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=utf-8

Thank you Hardy and everybody for your responses.  I?ve built many wire yagis that are loaded in the middle.  I?m looking to put up a new 3-el on 40m with a rope catenary as the ?boom,? so I want to eliminate the weight in the middle to reduce the sag.  It?s also over my driveway, so I don?t know if dropping open-wire line would pass the XYL test :-)  It looks like the end voltage would be too high for relays, but I?m still curious to have a number on that voltage if someone can figure it out.

I appreciate all the generous folks in this group!

73,
   Rob  K4OV

> On Oct 17, 2016, at 06:46, Hardy Landskov <n7rt at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Rob,
> I would switch in an inductor for a reflector and a capacitor for a director at the CENTER of the element. Use a shorted stub for the reflector and an open wire stub for the director.
> The voltage at the ends is very high even in parasitic elements and you would have the problem of RF getting into the switching wires. Not many relays will survive that environment and I don't know anyone who has tried that.
> I would try running 1/2 wave open wire line down to the ground and switch in the lumped elements there. Then put lumped elements in at the antenna. Of course you need split parasitic elements.
> I have built 2 el 80 meter Yagis with a DE and Reflector using open wire line(1/2 inch Al tubing) back to the center of the antenna so I could reach the stub and adjust the shorting coil for F/B ratio. Then used a latching relay to short out a portion of the line to go to the fone band. Of course a matching network would have to be switched in going from CW to FONE.
> But if you are working with wires, a spring loaded knife switch will work. But you would have to go out to the tower to change directions.
> I think I remember one guy who used retractable radio antennas from cars in a junk yard.
> And there is SteppIR if your VISA card can stand the hit.
> 
> I would be interested in other solutions myself.
> Hardy N7RT/4
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rob Katz
> Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 11:09 PM
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Voltage at ends of yogi parasitic elements?
> 
> I?m playing with some wire yagis, and I?d like to put relays at the ends of the parasitic wires to switch the director to a reflector (and vice versa).  If I?m driving the antennas with a full 1.5 KW, what would be the maximum voltage that I can expect at the ends of the PARASITIC elements?  Even a rough estimate would be useful, I just need to get a sense of what kind of a relay I would need to use.
> 
> 73,
>   Rob  K4OV
> 
> --
> 
> Rob Katz, Senior Partner
> 919-219-5324
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> 

------------------------------

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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 166, Issue 57
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