[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 178, Issue 111

Tue Oct 31 12:13:30 EDT 2017

Check out the new SteppIR WEB page. New controller with relays on output to protect the thing...finally. Discussion of new management. N0UU

> On October 31, 2017 at 7:43 AM towertalk-request at contesting.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: VNA (Grant Saviers)
> 2. Re: VNA (Jim Brown)
> 3. Re: Cob Web Antenna (Dan Maguire)
> 4. Re: VNA (Marv Shelton)
> 5. Meandering line "square wave" antenna design for shorter 160m
> Beverage? (Rick Braddy)
> 6. Re: VNA (Marty s)
> 7. Re: VNA (Jim Brown)
> 8. Re: Meandering line "square wave" antenna design for shorter
> 160m Beverage? (David Gilbert)
> 9. Modeling the SteppIR Yagis (Dan Maguire)
> 10. Re: VNA (M?ximo EA1DDO_HK1H)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:57:40 -0700
> From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>
> To: Neal Sulmeyer <Neal at k4ea.net>, towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID: <59F7E6A4.9000001 at pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I have a collection, acquired over time and need and economics. First a
> noise bridge, then a couple of Auteks. (yikes, how old am I?) Then the
> MFJ259, useful, but sold it since it overloaded with AM. I had direct
> line of sight to 50kw 1MHz BCB 3 miles at my former QTH. Not good, 1
> volt on the power lines. Upgraded to a 4170, slight overload from the
> BCB but useful results and also much more capability. Still have it,
> has a good GUI for TDR, but not self powered and needs a PC. Then added
> a VNWA for two port measurements and it rarely leaves my workbench.
> Tuned/checked lots of filters. Upgraded from v2 to v3 of VNWA. A lab
> grade instrument at 10% of the cost. Then for going on a DXpedition I
> bought a AA54, a solid instrument and rugged, although I had to tweak
> the case to allow a PL to seat fully on the SO. The new model and QST
> review look very nice. Then added a SARK for portability, the new ucode
> is a good improvement but it is a bit fragile at the connector. Does
> everything a single port analyzer can do and is super portable but is
> tiny, so human factors might be an issue for some hams. I took both
> SARK and AA54 on my last DXpeditions. Used both. Left one behind when
> another station's analyzer got fried - easy to do in a multi QRO
> transmitter environment. Everybody needs to QRT when measuring an
> antenna nearby.
>
> Size, battery power, rugged, & no PC needed are first priorities for me
> in field antenna work. For bench work, components, filters, etc. the
> VNWA is essential. Portables with a computer connection and good TDR
> plot are a plus for checking feedlines before or after on the tower, the
> small screens don't hack it.
>
> Also be aware that AFAIK, ALL mentioned can be overloaded and in one
> case we could only get consistent data transmitting at 5w with a K3 &
> SWR meter for some big antennas. The ham analyzers don't have the front
> ends or processing technologies of an Agilent or a $80k Rhode and
> Schwarz (drool).
>
> So that is my history and uses of them. Several great choices for
> whatever your needs. Not owned is the YouKits FG-01, but have used
> others and it works fine.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
>
> On 10/30/2017 17:29 PM, Neal Sulmeyer wrote:
> > ?My MFJ 259B is 25 years old and obsolete. Time for an upgrade. I'm considering the AIM 4300 (updgrade to the AIM4170 recommended by ON4UN).
> >
> > I would like to hear some opinions on this device and others from my fellow TowerTalkers.
> >
> > Neal, K4EA
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:08:54 -0700
> From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID:
> <855e4949-2dcc-6623-33b3-0ade41741158 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> For about four years, I've been using the VNWA 3e, designed by German EE
> prof DG8SAQ and built by some hams in the UK under the name SDR-Kits.
> It's not a kit, it's fully built and tested. I paid about $770 then,
> delivered to my door, with calibration loads and a carrying case; thanks
> to Brexit, it's about $100 less today.? It's quite well supported both
> by SDR Kits and by DG8SAQ via an email reflector.? In addition to the
> standard VNA functions, it does excellent TDR by taking the inverse FFT
> of a wide sweep. The unit has full spec to 500 MHz, and reduced dynamic
> range to 1.3 GHz.
>
> The file export functions work well, there are built-in math functions
> that can, for example, transform an SWR sweep to 75 ohms. The unit is
> also supported by AC6LA's excellent Excel spreadsheets. SimSmith and
> most of AC6LA's spreadsheets are freeware. I regularly use his ZPlots to
> compute the fundamental parameters of coax by importing S11 data from
> the VNWA into ZPlots.
>
> I regularly make Z measurements of antennas in the shack, measure the
> line with TDR to find its length, and export the data to SimSmith to
> transform the measurement to the antenna's feedpoint. I also use TDR to
> look for any problems along a transmission line. The unit stores
> multiple calibration files, so once you've done a calibration for one
> measurement setup, you can recall it on another day without the need to
> redo the calibration. The measurements in this report were done with the
> VNWA 3e.
>
> http://k9yc.com/BandpassFilterSurvey.pdf
>
> So were these measurements of DX Engineering's excellent NCC-1 phasing
> unit.
>
> http://k9yc.com/VE3DO.pdf
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 10/30/2017 5:29 PM, Neal Sulmeyer wrote:
> > ?My MFJ 259B is 25 years old and obsolete. Time for an upgrade. I'm considering the AIM 4300 (updgrade to the AIM4170 recommended by ON4UN).
> >
> > I would like to hear some opinions on this device and others from my fellow
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:38:46 -0700
> From: Dan Maguire <danac6la at gmail.com>
> To: towertalk <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cob Web Antenna
> Message-ID:
> <CAOnXRMsuvz8wZLLjG1Q5KbYUiWZ0X-xuLz3oi5PQtFk1rjGV8Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> W4TV wrote:
> >>> The "diamond" option is interesting ... are the feedlines connected from feed point to feed point or are they all connected in parallel at the "balun box"?
>
> I actually modeled both variations. In the graphics for the second
> section on this page
>
> http://ac6la.com/aecollection9.html
>
> the wires view following the words "Here's a different variation; a
> diamond shape ..." shows the one using separate feedpoints connected
> via short, 12.5 ohm transmission lines. That one requires four
> user-made transmission lines plus a 4:1 balun. Then the last wires
> view at the end of the section, following "Another idea I tinkered
> with ..." shows all the feedpoints ganged together like a normal
> cobweb. That just requires a 4:1 balun.
>
> In this zip file
>
> http://ac6la.com/adhoc/Cobwebs.zip
>
> the first variation is model "AC6LA Diamond Cobweb.weq" and the second
> is "AC6LA Diamond v2 Cobweb.weq".
>
> >>> Have you tried modelling a 40/30 meter version ...
>
> Nope. But if any AutoEZ users would like to give it a go by changing
> a few variables in one of the existing models I'll be happy to help
> you out if you get stuck.
>
> >>> ... and placing it 5 feet or so above/below a three/four element yagi while checking for any interaction 40 to 15 or 30 to 10 meters?
>
> Nope again. Same offer.
>
> Dan, AC6LA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 21:02:00 -0700
> From: Marv Shelton <marvs at att.net>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID: <3E3F303E-1868-4845-BE03-2BF6E0EE55B5 at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Neal,
> I remember a VNA review in QST some time ago. I am sure you can find it. Meanwhile I feel that you need 2 devices, one for the field and one for the shack/lab. They need to cover the bands you are active on of course.
> The field device should enable you to measure feedpoint characteristics and sweep the entire band of interest. The lab version should give you data that can be input into antenna analysis and design programs to do calculations for matching networks, tuning stubs and the like.
> Just my two cents.
>
> Marv wa2bfw
>
> Sent from my iPad
> And YES it's cool!
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:22:53 -0500
> From: Rick Braddy <rbraddy at gmail.com>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Meandering line "square wave" antenna design for
> shorter 160m Beverage?
> Message-ID:
> <CA+okkAyCAxikzyXpBG1oLPM2nwd92TdRq0p3i-ZZ5AfgSr3Z6Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> I am investigating a potential new design for a Beverage-like antenna that
> is much shorter than the traditional long-wire Beverage, that many (most?)
> of us do not have enough space to deploy. I originally posted this concept
> on the Flex Radio forum here
> <https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/meandering-line-square-wave-beverage-antenna-for-160-meters>,
> which resulted in many excellent suggestions, including one to post to this
> reflector to see if there's anyone with NEC modeling skills who can assist
> me in getting this model across the finish line (my 4nec2 skills are still
> developing).
>
> https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/meandering-line-square-wave-beverage-antenna-for-160-meters
>
> It's entirely possible that I may be barking up the wrong tree, but if this
> concept antenna does work and perform reasonably well, it would provide
> many of us an option for 160 and 80 meter DX'ing. The basic idea is to
> fold the lengthy Beverage antenna up into a series of "meandering lines"
> that (to me) look like a square wave. These antennas are very popular and
> effective on VHF and IoT devices at 2.5 Ghz, and have been successfully
> deployed in radar and military HF applications, although there's relatively
> little research published on them. This style of design would result in
> reducing the space required for the antenna by a factor of 10 or more (from
> 580 feet down to perhaps 50).
>
> In particular, the last post at the link above includes the current NEC
> model file, some charts showing the results thus far (which are
> inconclusive at best), and a link to the "C" program I'm using to generate
> the NEC model. I could use some consulting help to refine my NEC model to
> properly simulate the terminating resistor and perhaps other tweaks to get
> the model working well.
>
> Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction and any assistance.
>
> Rick
>
> --
>
> *Rick Braddy*
>
> *W5FCX*
>
> e-mail: rbraddy at gmail.com
>
> Mobile: 832-335-8610
>
> Web: w5fcx.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 20:55:42 -0400
> From: Marty s <0246811 at gmail.com>
> To: k3lr at k3lr.com
> Cc: Richard Solomon <dickw1ksz at gmail.com>, towertalk
> <TowerTalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID:
> <CA+DveWZ-wgadcbeEurcWbsUVvuoO66nyiD-QRPentuLFwhYvJA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I too agree with Tim Duffy here. I have used the AA-230ZOOM
> extensively with great results. I have found the TDR functions super
> helpful too. It is far more capable than the MFJ unit, are quite fairly
> priced.
>
> Best,
> Marty Sullaway
> Marty.Sullaway at gmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 8:47 PM, Tim Duffy <k3lr at k3lr.com> wrote:
>
> > HI Neal:
> >
> > Check out the RigExpert 230ZOOM. It works great on all bands - even on 160
> > close to AM broadcast stations, no problems at all. The MFJ-259 cannot
> > handle AM broadcast - as it will give error results. The 230ZOOM stores
> > plots, etc. super feature set. Works great in the shack and out on the
> > tower.
> >
> > 73
> > Tim K3LR
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> > Richard Solomon
> > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 8:39 PM
> > To: towertalk
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> >
> > I have the AIM-4170C and a really
> > old MFJ-259. The AIM-4170C is
> > a very useful tool in the shack, where
> > I can hook it up to a computer and
> > do detail analysis.
> >
> > But, when outside, at the Antenna,
> > I always reach for my trusty old MFJ.
> >
> > Both instruments have their place
> > in Antenna work.
> >
> > BTW, my MFJ-259 has worked since
> > day 1 with no issues. I added a high
> > capacity Lithium Battery to it so I can
> > use it for days without recharging.
> >
> > 73, Dick, W1KSZ
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 5:29 PM, Neal Sulmeyer <Neal at k4ea.net> wrote:
> >
> > > ?My MFJ 259B is 25 years old and obsolete. Time for an upgrade. I'm
> > > considering the AIM 4300 (updgrade to the AIM4170 recommended by ON4UN).
> > >
> > > I would like to hear some opinions on this device and others from my
> > > fellow TowerTalkers.
> > >
> > > Neal, K4EA
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TowerTalk mailing list
> > > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 22:07:46 -0700
> From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID:
> <6a8e6508-8edc-f16f-2a9e-769712bfb34d at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 10/30/2017 9:02 PM, Marv Shelton wrote:
> > I remember a VNA review in QST some time ago.
>
> The VNWA 3e was due to get a rave review in that series, but a US vendor
> threatened a patent issue, and it was killed.
>
> BTW -- the VNWA 3e is powered via USB from its host computer. Most other
> VNAs lack this capability. It makes it far easier to use in the field.
> Some users are running it a Windoze tablet.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 23:42:47 -0700
> From: David Gilbert <xdavid at cis-broadband.com>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Meandering line "square wave" antenna design
> for shorter 160m Beverage?
> Message-ID: <8eafa1e3-9c89-2381-75be-556704ca0cf3 at cis-broadband.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
> It's not totally clear to me how you get 500 feet out of that sketch
> (I'm probably misunderstanding your description), but I don't think that
> configuration would work well at all, at least not as a Beverage.? A
> Beverage is a traveling wave antenna and current is induced in the wire
> from RF arriving along the length of the wire. Almost none of your wire
> is in the proper direction for that.? Also, the folded back segments are
> spaced closely enough, and the segments are a small enough percentage of
> a wavelength (meaning that the currents in adjacent wires are
> approximately in phase but going opposite directions), that I suspect
> whatever fields that actually get induced would mostly cancel each other.
>
> Just my opinion ...
>
> Dave? AB7E
>
>
>
> On 10/30/2017 5:22 PM, Rick Braddy wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am investigating a potential new design for a Beverage-like antenna that
> > is much shorter than the traditional long-wire Beverage, that many (most?)
> > of us do not have enough space to deploy. I originally posted this concept
> > on the Flex Radio forum here
> > <https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/meandering-line-square-wave-beverage-antenna-for-160-meters>,
> > which resulted in many excellent suggestions, including one to post to this
> > reflector to see if there's anyone with NEC modeling skills who can assist
> > me in getting this model across the finish line (my 4nec2 skills are still
> > developing).
> >
> > https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/meandering-line-square-wave-beverage-antenna-for-160-meters
> >
> > It's entirely possible that I may be barking up the wrong tree, but if this
> > concept antenna does work and perform reasonably well, it would provide
> > many of us an option for 160 and 80 meter DX'ing. The basic idea is to
> > fold the lengthy Beverage antenna up into a series of "meandering lines"
> > that (to me) look like a square wave. These antennas are very popular and
> > effective on VHF and IoT devices at 2.5 Ghz, and have been successfully
> > deployed in radar and military HF applications, although there's relatively
> > little research published on them. This style of design would result in
> > reducing the space required for the antenna by a factor of 10 or more (from
> > 580 feet down to perhaps 50).
> >
> > In particular, the last post at the link above includes the current NEC
> > model file, some charts showing the results thus far (which are
> > inconclusive at best), and a link to the "C" program I'm using to generate
> > the NEC model. I could use some consulting help to refine my NEC model to
> > properly simulate the terminating resistor and perhaps other tweaks to get
> > the model working well.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction and any assistance.
> >
> > Rick
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 09:22:48 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Dan Maguire <djm2150 at yahoo.com>
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Modeling the SteppIR Yagis
> Message-ID: <955177388.7362220.1509441768270 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> AutoEZ format models are now available for each of the nine Yagis in the current SteppIR line-up: 2E, 3E, 4E, DB11, DB18, DB18E, DB36, DB42, and the UrbanBeam. Complete details and downloads available here:
>
> http://ac6la.com/aecollection10.html
>
> I've also just finished models for the discontinued DB32 (like the 4E 40m-6m but with a second loop element at the D2 position) and the original MonstIR (42 ft boom, all straight elements). Those are not yet mentioned on the web page. If anyone would like either of those models contact me directly.
>
> Dan, AC6LA
> http://ac6la.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:42:54 +0000
> From: M?ximo EA1DDO_HK1H <ea1ddo at hotmail.com>
> To: "towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] VNA
> Message-ID:
> <AM5P195MB0097A45811707A22D6EA64CF955E0 at AM5P195MB0097.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Neal,
>
>
> If you would like to use the VNA "on the field", you can consider consider the KC901S+:
>
>
> http://www.deepace.net/kc901s/
>
>
> It is a two ports VNA, high dynamic range, up to 4 GHz, and it is portable, to use it at the antenna location, with no PC needed.
>
> As extra you get Spectrum analyser, RF and AF generator, Distance to fault, etc.
>
>
> 73, Maximo / EA1DDO
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> De: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces at contesting.com> en nombre de Neal Sulmeyer <Neal at k4ea.net>
> Enviado: martes, 31 de octubre de 2017 0:29
> Para: towertalk at contesting.com
> Asunto: [TowerTalk] VNA
>
> My MFJ 259B is 25 years old and obsolete. Time for an upgrade. I'm considering the AIM 4300 (updgrade to the AIM4170 recommended by ON4UN).
>
> I would like to hear some opinions on this device and others from my fellow TowerTalkers.
>
> Neal, K4EA
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> TowerTalk Info Page - Contesting<http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk>
> lists.contesting.com
> TowerTalk is for discussion of tower and HF antenna construction topics. TT members have lots of helpful information and are happy to share it.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 178, Issue 111
> *******************************************