[TowerTalk] Putting up wire antennas with a drone?
terry burge
ki7m at comcast.net
Sun Jun 17 15:52:32 EDT 2018
Once upon a time in Keizer, Oregon I tried using a sling shot. Don't remember how many times I shot that d**m thing but either I almost took my eye out or the neighbors window. Never got higher than about 40' up a 105-110' fir tree. I was launching from the neighbors porch. Gave up on that method and glad I did. Sling shots can be dangerous. The Max's brothers or the Three Stooges could have got a lot of inspiration watching me use that sling shot.
Then I tried my 75# bow and fishing arrows. More precise control where things are going but limited on height. Caught one up on a 90 foot branch and snapped the line. Didn't tell my neighbors but every day I would check on it. Eventionally it came down on the roof a their lean to next to the property line and I used a fiberglass quad poll to retrieve it. Neighbors never knew there was a weighted arrow over their heads.
A smaller air cannon that used 2 oz. fishing weights could get scary. My property and both neighbors on each side were about 110' X 103' so there wasn't a lot of room for errors. A 2 ounce weight coming down on somebody could be a real bad day for all. Still got the thing but don't do anything with it. And as usual wind is the enemy along with branches.
Eventionally I spent about $250-300 and bought a good tennis ball launching air cannon that I have used quiet a few times. Biggest problem is the wind. Doesn't take much to send the woven 30-40 pound fishing line off course and miss the top of a fir tree. Even a big fir tree, yes! It uses tennis balls with wires through them in a loop and some fishing weights inside. Most are 4 ounce but a couple went up to 6 ounces. It easily went over the105-110' fir tree in Keizer and now the 90' fir and oak trees out here south of Salem. When I first moved here I got real busy putting 3/16" black dacron lines over some of the trees. My 160 meter inv-L goes over an oak tree about 75' up and just starts to come down on the other side with a loop of the dacron line forming a loop. The air cannon has a limit of 85 pounds on the pressure gauge and that is usually what I get near using a bicycle pump. I'm sold on this setup and I can certainly control it better than any other method I tried for tall trees. Lately I've been thinking about a couple of fir trees in the 150' plus range that might give a challenge to my cannon.
Years back for field day the Umpqua Valley Amateur Radio Club operated from one of the big county fair grounds buildings. My friend Steve, WB7OTR used a weighted sock to toss a line over one of the wooden rafters about 40' up and we strung the coax out the roof to an antenna. We did get into a lot of the portable amplifier systems. Don't think the fair committees ever invited the club back again! But tossing the sock over a 40' high rafter was something I could never have done. Steve did it in one try. Go Figure, he had been in the coast guard.
Terry
KI7M
> On June 17, 2018 at 8:02 AM "Bob Shohet, KQ2M" wrote:
>
>
> The “best” strategy will depend several things:
>
> 1) Proficiency with very methods: drone, sling shot, bow and arrow, commercial alternatives, etc.
> 2) Importance of permanency of installation – a few days-weeks vs. months-years
> 3) Cost and willingness to spend “whatever it takes”
> 4) Immediacy of needed installation – minutes-hours or days-weeks from now? (see #1 above)
> 5) Terrain and density of trees/brush around desired tree/branches
> 6) Height of desired tree/branch
> 7) Health and strength of installer
> 8) Weather at the time/day of installation – sunshine or rain, temperature, wind strength and direction
>
> I am sure that there are more “degrees of freedom” that can be added, but the point is that EVERY installation will vary as will each installer and each ham that wants something to be installed. There is no “one size fits all” and experiences will vary ENORMOUSLY!
>
> I live in VERY dense forest. And the weather is often a factor as is my state of health.
>
> OTOH, I have become expert with a sling-shot and the materials are relatively easily obtainable and fairly inexpensive. I can shoot a 2 oz weight to more 95’ vertical height in wind less than 15 mph with very good accuracy. It generally takes me 1 hour or less to snag the right branch in the right tree with 25 lb fishing line then passing twine and then heavier twine and then 1/4” rope through the desired branch. It is less than 1 hour if I make it on the first try and sometimes a bit more if takes 4 or 5 tries. And it can be very frustrating at times given the density of the trees and the branches surrounding the desired branch. But the total cost is about $2 per line. The 10 pack of 2 oz. fishing weights are $4 and 225 yds of 25 lb test line is ~ $9.99 and the Marksmen sling shot is ~ $9.99.
>
> If there is a lone branch on a tall tree standing by itself then it is easy and I can be done in 15 minutes.
>
> A face shield is a MUST and I wear a thick glove on my left hand in case the weight hits off center, but this is just common sense to use.
>
> My method would not work for 160’ tree. But almost anything at 100’ or less could be accomplished without undue patience and concentration. Occasionally I have to cut down a tree or two to make room for access to the desired tree, but that would have to be done for any other method in order to install an antenna.
>
> And the sling shot can be used ANYWHERE. Dense woods, ravines, wetlands, etc. No problem. Lightweight, portable and takes up very little space in a backpack.
>
> Below 100’ there is no branch that an arborist can reach that I can’t reach with my slingshot.
>
> The idea of putting in a pulley is great but I will suggest an alternative. When that line goes up, attach a carabiner to one end of the rope and attach another rope to the bottom of the carabiner. The put another rope through the carabiner and let that go up as well. When the carabiner is in the desired place in the tree, simply secure BOTH ends of the carabiner and then pull up the other rope through the carabiner with the antenna attached.
>
> I have used this method successfully for several wire antennas and can easily raise or lower the antenna through carabiner. If I need to take something down, then I can simply lower the carabiner as well.
>
> I realize that not everyone can become skilled with a slingshot and that there are other factors that may come into play, but I often get the sense that hams are overcomplicating their installations. The old “tools” still work well with a little bit of proficiency and flexibility and forethought. And the convenience of doing it yourself rather than having to wait for someone else’s schedule, is compelling. As is the potentially ENORMOUS cost-saving!
>
> I still think that having a drone and potentially being able to use it is a cool idea, but it is probably unnecessary in the vast majority of situations.
>
> 73 and GL!
>
> Bob KQ2M
>
>
> From: Wes Attaway (N5WA)
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018 10:44 PM
> To: jim at audiosystemsgroup.com mailto:jim at audiosystemsgroup.com ; towertalk at contesting.com mailto:towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Putting up wire antennas with a drone?
>
> The tree climbers do the best job, as has been discussed.
>
> I have used a tennis ball launcher with good results to put lines over Pine
> tree limbs. Usually I try for something about 70' to 85' or so.
>
> I have a lot of Pine trees in the yard (plus other trees) and several are
> about 100' tall but it is not practical to try to shoot over them and to
> string a wire antenna between them. There are too many limbs to deal with
> below the wire and the amount of "waving" of the tree at the top can be
> extreme.
>
> The tennis ball launcher does a good job but it is very hard to get a line
> into a real good position. It takes me quite a few shots to get something
> that is acceptable. One problem is that even if the ball goes over the
> correct limb then it might also go over some limbs in nearby trees. This is
> a problem that is unavoidable for people in yards with a lot of trees.
>
> There are ways to deal with this but it is a big nuisance.
>
> Patience is a key operative word.
>
> The tree climbers can get a line exactly where you want it, but as Jim says,
> they can be expensive. But, after a few days with a tennis ball launcher in
> a yard full of trees you may well decide to spend the money for a climber.
>
> -------------------
> Wes Attaway (N5WA)
> (318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LA
> Computer/Cellphone Forensics
> AttawayForensics.com
> -------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com ] On Behalf Of Jim
> Brown
> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2018 4:50 PM
> To: towertalk at contesting.com mailto:towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Putting up wire antennas with a drone?
>
> On 6/16/2018 1:56 PM, Bryan Swadener via TowerTalk wrote:
>
> > > A dozen years ago, I hired a "climbing arborist" to hang a pulley in the
> >
> > > top of my 85' Cedar tree He passed the rope thru a piece of thick rubber
> hose around the tree trunk, and pulled the antenna rope thru the pulley and
> down parallel to the tree trunk, to a counterweight.
>
> All of my high wires are rigged through pulleys by climbers. I've used
> several over the 12 years I've been here. The smartest has been the
> arborist, whom I still use when he's available. But because he's good
> and smart, he's also very busy. They're expensive -- the going rate is
> $850/day for a 6 hour day for the climber and his groundsman, and when
> the trees are as tall as mine are (they're climbing at least 160 ft),
> one tree per day is all they can accomplish.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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