[UK-CONTEST] Why do UK stations not beam to OZ in UKAC ?

Wed Aug 8 00:02:42 PDT 2012

I'll put another slant on this discussion:-

I've found some statistics from the year 2000 (unverified by me) for radio
amateur populations:-

UK 60,000

Sweden 11,000

Denmark 10,000

Norway 5,000

And Germany for comparison 80,000

So, not only are they a long way away for VHF/UHF contacts, but there are
less of them. This is especially the case for Norway and Sweden where the
population density is an order of magnitude less than the UK.

John G4ZTR 

  _____  

From: uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ray James
Sent: 08 August 2012 01:33
To: UK-Contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Why do UK stations not beam to OZ in UKAC ?

Hi all,
My own take on this varies from Bob's.

Lets look at this from the perspective of Allan, OZ7Z operating OZ1ALS.
The 2m NAC (Nordic Activity Contest) scoring and multiplier is points per Km
for each QSO and a bonus of 500 points for each locator worked.
Once he's worked a locator all further contacts into the same square are
PPKm only so to build up a winning score he really needs new locators.
Yes, Allan's chest does expand a little when he say's he can work 2m into
IO82 but Russ G4PBP also happens to run a very good station capable of
superb EME results which everyone would love to have but we live in the real
world as Peter G3UBX and David G3YYD have explained and are therefore
constrained by limitations of what we can or cannot get away with.
This may include planning restrictions, local terrain, pocket, interest or
the desire to move experimentation between different bands.
Russ also happens to be openly against the current UKAC rules so doesn't
enter UKAC's and therefore is free to arrange a schedule with anyone he
wishes over challenging distances with no guarantee of success whilst this
facility is only available to UKAC entrants who participate in the
"assisted" category, (AX) in the UK.
Therefore, Allan's example is not pertinent to the majority.

The first thing that jumped out to me when looking at Allan's QSO Maps was
the relative sparsity of Nordic contacts. The predominant point earners are
contacts into DL, PA and SP. That struck me as very unusual if it's supposed
to be a Nordic Activity Contest as it's not generating great Nordic
Activity. They (including OZ1ALS) are looking outwith the Nordic countries
for contacts to be in a potential winning position yet their own Nordic
activity is surprisingly low going by OZ1ALS's QSO Map.
If the Nordic countries level of contest activity is as low as OZ1ALS's maps
appear to show then I think they have a problem similar to what I observed
in the past within the UK and they should take a leaf from our RSGBCC UKAC
rules and start invigorating more LA, SM, OH and OZ participation on all
VHF, UHF and Microwave NAC's to turn results around.

73 Ray GM4CXM

PS. Unfortunately arrived home too late to participate in tonights 2m UKAC.

--- On Tue, 7/8/12, Rob Harrison <robharrison at g8hgn.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> From: Rob Harrison <robharrison at g8hgn.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Why do UK stations not beam to OZ in UKAC ?
> To: "UK-Contest at contesting. com" <UK-Contest at contesting.com>
> Date: Tuesday, 7 August, 2012, 19:48
> David,
>
> I've rising ground up to 100m to my NW, much of where the UK
> is, but still
> work into GD,GI & GM. It's a struggle sometimes, but VHF
> is mostly, you're
> not going to get 59 QSO's 90% of the time.
>
> BTW I can hear OZ1ALS now anywhere between 41 to 55 with AS
> enhancement.
>
> 73 Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David" <g3yyd at btinternet.com>
> To: "UK-Contest at contesting. com" <UK-Contest at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 4:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Why do UK stations not beam to OZ
> in UKAC ?
>
>
> > Rob
> >
> > It depends on if you have rising or falling ground in
> the beam direction.
> > I
> > live in a valley - enough said?
> >
> > 73 David G3YYD
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com
> > [mailto:uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com]
> On Behalf Of Rob Harrison
> > Sent: 07 August 2012 15:28
> > To: UK-Contest at contesting. com
> > Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Why do UK stations not beam
> to OZ in UKAC ?
> >
> > David,
> >
> > I think you do yourself an injustice.
> >
> > I'm running 50w (FT-847 no pre-amp) to an 11 ele LFA at
> 13m AGL, 60m ASL,
> > and am 741km from Allan's contest site. I hear him 70%
> of sessions, albeit
> > weak and probably work him 40% of the time, on SSB. Yes
> I'm a bit nearer
> > the
> >
> > east coast than you in JO01FO, but only 9km nearer in a
> straight line.
> > Granted Allan's station is running QRO and large
> antennas, but that makes
> > up
> >
> > for my end of the QSO. Taking OZ out of the equation,
> there are many near
> > continent stations well within 500km of you. I don't
> know your QTH, so
> > have
> > no idea of the topography and whether you are shielded
> towards Europe. It
> > would be more difficult to make a 750km contact within
> the UK, due to
> > activity and geography.
> >
> > It seems you're telling yourself you won't make it
> before you try. There's
> > an awful lot of enhancement due to aircraft scatter
> over the North Sea,
> > and
> > it can and does make up the difference. In fact I'd
> says 95% of contacts
> > over 200km are made using this mode in the UK, and not
> true tropo', the
> > QSB
> > is far too rapid and uneven.
> >
> > Accepted there won't be any mult' involved with
> European stations. But if
> > we
> >
> > carry on like this, they won't beam this way at all ;
> it's becoming
> > noticable already. That doesn't altogether matter in
> UKAC, but in bigger
> > contests it's a worrying trend.
> >
> > 73 Bob G8HGN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David" <g3yyd at btinternet.com>
> > To: "UK-Contest at contesting. com" <UK-Contest at contesting.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 3:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Why do UK stations not beam
> to OZ in UKAC ?
> >
> >
> >> Allan
> >>
> >> I am 750KM from your QTH. The normal troposcatter
> range for my station is
> >> about 500 to 550KM on SSB and about 120KM more on
> CW. So even on CW I am
> >> short by more than 100KM. In 2m troposcatter terms
> that would mean I need
> >> at
> >> least 11dB improvement to be able to have a CW QSO
> with you. SSB requires
> >> almost 25dB more.
> >>
> >> I am already running UK full power so I would need
> to increase my antenna
> >> from a single 12 el (6m boom length) Yagi at 21m
> AGL to 16 by 12el Yagis.
> >> If
> >> I went illegal and ran 1KW (+4dB) the antenna would
> need to be at least 6
> >> by
> >> 12el Yagis - not practical for this QTH.
> >>
> >> Conclusion: I can only QSO with you by moving to
> the English east coast.
> >> If
> >> I moved to East coast for UKAC I would be beaming
> away from you into the
> >> UK
> >> to maximise my mults.
> >>
> >> 73 David G3YYD in IO91TR.
> >>
> >>
> >> Allan, oz7z from OZ1ALS wrote:
> >>
> >> We at OZ1ALS are qrv with 2 times 8x4 + 4x6
> elements and 1KW.
> >>
> >> We have 8x4 beaming to JO01 all evening
> >>
> >> You will find us on 144.307 most of the time.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> UK-Contest at contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/uk-contest
> >
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>
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