[UK-CONTEST] RE - CQ Contest Rules.

mark.haynes at yahoo.co.uk mark.haynes at yahoo.co.uk
Wed Oct 24 04:38:19 EDT 2012 

The problem is Chris that the discussion was about rule changes which by default assumes you are submitting a log.

You could have made that clear in your very first posting, which would have avoided the responses. Under the nature of the discussion, all responses are valid.

I hope to work many of you this weekend! I'll try to log you right first time ;)

73,
Mark M0DXR


Mark Haynes
Tel: 07917 223870
Email: mark.haynes at yahoo.co.uk
Skype: m0dxr_mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris G3SJJ <g3sjj at btinternet.com>
Sender: "UK-Contest" <uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 09:30:49 
Cc: Contest Reflector UK<uk-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] RE - CQ Contest Rules.

I take your point Bob, but at the end of all the blathering, my original point has been proven, that it is acceptable, even in CQWW, to do 
POST-contest alterations. During all of this blathering I have been accused of cheating, been told to improve my keyboard skills and something also 
about access to internet etc.

As I keep saying, I will continue in ANY contest I operate in to put my log into Excel to find "you inadvertently logged something wrong which you did 
not transmit." To quote, and I will do that when it is convenient to me.

Surely a very easy and intelligent philosophy for anyone to accept.

Chris G3SJJ




On 24/10/2012 09:16, Bob Henderson wrote:
> Chris
>
> The issue is not and cannot be a general one until such time as all
> contests adopt the same rules.  Not in our lifetime.
>
> All sensible discussion has been around the specific changes made to CQWW
> rules.  A clue to the specific nature of discussion can be found in the
> subject line of the majority of associated mails, including I might point
> out, this one from you..  All generalised blathers amount to nothing more
> than noise.
>
> 73 Bob, 5B4AGN
>
> On 24 October 2012 08:07, Chris G3SJJ <g3sjj at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> No, Roger, I have made the point several times that the issue is a general
>> one. In one email I described the post-contest situation for SSB FD. I have
>> refered to putting contest logs in general into Excel. As you are aware
>> there have recently been proposals to bring in 5 day log submission and 3x
>> times points penalties into RSGB contests, neither of which would serve any
>> useful purpose.
>>
>> As regards IARU, well I would have thought the cheating aspect would also
>> apply to that event or are you suggesting detailed post-contest log
>> manipulation is acceptable in that and otehr events?
>>
>> Chris G3SJJ
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/10/2012 22:30, Roger Western wrote:
>>
>>> Chris, maybe you haven't noticed but this whole thread has been entirely
>>> and only to do with new CQWW rules - nothing at all to do with RSGB, IARU
>>> or any other contests. Seems you are being intentionally obtuse,
>>> 73 de Roger/G3SXW.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Chris G3SJJ
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 9:23 PM
>>> Cc: Contest Reflector UK
>>> Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] RE - CQ Contest Rules.
>>>
>>> There ya go. I was correct all along. I can and will continue to put my
>>> log into Excel to find the the QSOs where I in advertantly logged something
>>> which I didn't transmit! I will do it when convenient over a week or so.
>>> Jeez, it's taken about 200 emails to get to this state! I am not concerned
>>> about the CQWW events as I don't take those seriously. More concerned
>>> with RSGB contests.
>>>
>>> We still haven't heard from the multi-ops who do the IARU contest etc on
>>> how detailed they go into checking callsigns, serial numbers, zones etc.
>>>
>>> Chris G3SJJ
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23/10/2012 19:58, Richard Allisette wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello again Roger,
>>>> Well I did try to RTFM and unless I am even more senile than the XYL
>>>> says I am, I think I can still use any sort of database to check my log
>>>> provided it is within the 48 hours of the contest. So I could legally use a
>>>> database to check call signs in the last few hours of the contest if I wish.
>>>> That was what I was on about.
>>>> Time for a beer!
>>>>
>>>> 73 GU4CHY
>>>>
>>>> On 23 Oct 2012, at 19:49, Roger Western <g3sxw at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   Dear Puzzled,
>>>>> Just RTFM ! ! !
>>>>> It is permitted to change logged QSOs during and/or after the contest -
>>>>> BUT only if you know that you inadvertently logged something wrong which
>>>>> you did not transmit. See below!
>>>>> 73 de Roger/G3SXW.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Allisette
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 7:44 PM
>>>>> To: Roger Western
>>>>> Cc: uk-contest at contesting.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] RE - CQ Contest Rules.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger,
>>>>> I am hoping to do 10m SBHP in the CW leg this year. Let us suppose that
>>>>> the band folds at 20.00z. I can then do any log alterations I think that
>>>>> need to be done in the four hours of the contest period remaining.
>>>>> Am I reading this right? Seems daft but could a future strategy include
>>>>> making sure you finish before the contest period ends to "cleanse" your log
>>>>> - you might save more points than bashing on till midnight?
>>>>>
>>>>> Puzzled of Guernsey,
>>>>>
>>>>> GU4CHY
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23 Oct 2012, at 19:23, Roger Western <g3sxw at btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Look, chaps, let's all stop mis-stating what has been published. See:
>>>>>> http://www.cqww.com/rules_**2012changes.htm<http://www.cqww.com/rules_2012changes.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is perfectly clear. But you do need to spend two minutes reading it!
>>>>>> Yes, it makes perfect sense, Brian (and others today)!
>>>>>> 73 de Roger/G3SXW.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NEW RULE:
>>>>>> CQWW Rule III.13: Post-contest correcting of call signs by using any
>>>>>> database, recordings or confirming QSOs is not allowed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> EXPLANATION:
>>>>>> When the contest period ends, do not use any sort of database, local
>>>>>> or remote, to review and then modify the callsigns in your log prior to
>>>>>> submission.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Use of QRZ.com, DX Cluster, RBN files, other call sign databases,
>>>>>> friends’ or club logs, etc., are considered to be other data sources and
>>>>>> are not allowed for post-contest call correction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having friends or experts who were not “the entrant” review the log
>>>>>> also “counts” as a database (not permitted).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A recording of your own contest effort, whether digital or analog, is
>>>>>> considered to be a database, even if you made the recording yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Q: “After the contest I noticed a typing mistake. What should I do?”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have to determine whether the call sign you logged is the call
>>>>>> sign you sent during the QSO in question (see rule XII.2 below for more
>>>>>> information). If you are certain that this is a logging error, AND that
>>>>>> what you logged does not match what you actually sent, then make the
>>>>>> correction. If the committee’s SDR file shows that what you submitted on
>>>>>> your log does not match what you sent during the contest exchange, you are
>>>>>> in violation of the rules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your decision must be based purely on your inspection of the log. You
>>>>>> may not use any database or other resources to review your log
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: brian coyne
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 6:33 PM
>>>>>> To: uk-contest at contesting.com
>>>>>> Subject: [UK-CONTEST] RE - CQ Contest Rules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   p.s. what's SCP?
>>>>>>> G3LVP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>> SCP (SuperCheck Partial) is a database file which can be incorporated
>>>>>> into your contest logging file.
>>>>>> The database is compiled by scrutinising logs from previous contests
>>>>>> to extract the callsigns of active contesting stations. On the CQ Contest
>>>>>> Reflector we see requests from the compilers of this database after just
>>>>>> about every major (and not so major) contest requesting logs to capture any
>>>>>> new calls which may stray into the fold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This database can be called into a window to check callsigns the
>>>>>> contester is not sure about during the event - hence my comment about
>>>>>> guessing games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the comment about using my full call - well, imagine if they
>>>>>> cannot get just 3 characters/letters correct how much more trouble would I
>>>>>> get using a combination of six!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, because it is not barred by the rules (in fact it is welcomed and
>>>>>> used by many) it is ok to cheat legally whereas to make an alteration of a
>>>>>> typo, marked at the time of making it, at a later time after the contest is
>>>>>> now regarded as cheating! Make sense to you? - not to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will repeat what I wrote earlier . The correction is  what I
>>>>>> actually sent, as per the rules, not something that I made up, guessed at
>>>>>> or referred to another source to discover.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sometimes reasonableness and common sense get left behind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73  Brian 5B4AIZ / C4Z -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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