[VHFcontesting] Building Rover success
Rick R
rick1ds at hotmail.com
Thu Aug 23 20:56:03 EDT 2018
Although I’m retiring from roving after 25 successful years, here are my thoughts on making more points:
Use Sutton’s Law: rove where you can maximize QSOs. Consider roving in these grids: FN31,30,21,20,10, FM19,29. Work all the Packrats and NEWS stations and the density of VHF ops in these grids.
Use some of the uW bands where the QSO points are higher and you add grid multipliers. Yes, a bit of an investment, but 10w on 903, 1296 and 2304 will really help out in those grids if you have even a 6’ loop antenna for each band. USE CW on those bands.
Use you phone for messaging, internet, etc and getting fixed stations to work you.
Use good location where you are high and in the clear. The N2MH Rover location guide may be useful. If you contact me, I can assist with good rover locations in the Philly to Boston axis.
Be on first thing when contest starts from a populated grid. Save the rare grids for Sunday afternoon. Big burst of activity each evening. Hang in and learn something each rove to make it more productive and more fun. Make sure you catch any 6m openings. Check it frequently. Make sure everything working before you leave home. Have lots of power on 2m as that is the hub of VHF contests. Make your set up in each grid quick and simple and the ergonomics of your operation non-fatiguing. Take appropriate meal and bio-breaks.
GL es 73, Rick K1DS
> On Aug 23, 2018, at 8:06 PM, "vhfcontesting-request at contesting.com" <vhfcontesting-request at contesting.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Making roving fun and interesting (JamesDuffey)
> 2. Re: Making roving fun and interesting (Sean Waite)
> 3. Re: 2018 June VHF Contest - Preliminary Resu (nosigma at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 14:36:03 -0500
> From: JamesDuffey <jamesduffey at comcast.net>
> To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com, detrick at merzhaus.org
> Subject: [VHFcontesting] Making roving fun and interesting
> Message-ID: <71CBFFE6-9362-47BA-8D74-3AB971B16632 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Detrick - You wrote:
>
> ?we had fun, but I don't feel like we did it right, and don't entirely know why we'd want to do it again.?
>
> And
>
> ?convince me that I should do rover (again)?
>
> Without knowing more about your specific rover experience it is hard to make concrete suggestions, but here are a few things I have discovered over the years to make roving more fun and interesting:
>
> 1) Be on at the beginning of the contest. People will then know you are roving and look for you during the rest of the contest. A lot of people get on at the beginning work everyone that is on and then leave. You will work these people if you are on at the beginning, and more importantly, they will know that you will be on and probably workable for the rest of the contest from other grids, and possibly knew mults, so instead of abandoning the shack, they will come back from time to time to work you. Activity is much of what makes roving attractive.
>
> 2) Location, that is sites from which you rove, is an important, perhaps the most important, consideration in roving. While it is nice to setup in a rare grid or on a mountain top, there are other considerations that may make a more mundane site better to rove from. I have learned to start from a site that is easily accessible to many VHF stations and from which it is easy to get from one grid to another, like a grid convergence or grid boundary. This has two advantages; one, most of the active stations will know you are on from the get go and this will incentivize them to follow you, and two, you can give stations 2 or 3 or even 4 multipliers right away. This will sort of bond you to the fixed stations and they will follow you around, knowing that you are for real and wanting to work you again. After the initial QSOs, you can go further afield, perhaps to rarer grids, or that mountain top.
>
> For example, I often start my rove at the Moriarty convergence, a grid corner about 35 miles from Albuquerque and 40 miles south of Santa Fe. I can also work K5AM at his Horse Mountain QTH from here. I can get to good locations in all four grids with a travel time of about 10 or 15 minutes. Sometimes this is enough for the first day, sometimes I travel to new grids. You don?t need a convergence for this to work as a boundary is good too. If possible, visit the sites before the rove to ensure that they are good places from which to operate.
>
> 3) Plan and schedule your route. Sit down with a road map or atlas, and grid square map, or the equivalent internet resources like the HA8TKS grid map and Google/Bing/Mapquest/Apple maps/Waze to plan a route. It is easy to get travel times from those resources. Add 5 or 10 minutes or more as margin, depending on the length to be traveled. Then put together a schedule, including time starting at a grid and the time you will leave. It is hard to keep on schedule if there are good band openings or you have technical problems, but if people know when and where to look for you, that will result in more QSOs. I find it easiest to try to leave a grid when I say I am going to leave and that keeps me on schedule best, provided you have planned realistically and not gotten too far behind schedule.
>
> As much as possible, plan your travels north-south. It is roughly half the distance to get from one grid to another going north-south than going east-west.
>
> 4) Publicize your rove. Once you have a route and schedule planned, send it out to active VHFers in the area from which you will rove. If you have a local, or semi-local VHF group, send your itinerary to their e-mail reflector. Similarly, if there is a local contest club, send your itinerary to them or have a member of the group send them your itinerary. Include your cell phone number as it is OK to arrange for QSOs by text or phone call as long as no QSO information is passed.
>
> 5) Use assistance resources. I find APRS and a cell phone to be very useful. I use APRS-TX, an app for the iPhone, to send my location to the internet APRS server. Then the fixed stations can look on APRS.fi to see where I am and, with a little mental arithmetic, they can see if I am on schedule and figure out where to point their antenna. Most of the fixed stations I have talked to find APRS to be the easiest way to track me. I also get texts (preferred) and phone calls from fixed stations when they are trying to work me, usually when I am weak. Again, no QSO information should be passed by phone.
>
> 6) Know where active stations, especially the multi-multi stations, are. Look in past results to get this information for your area. With experience, you will know who you can work from where. Also, use a compass to determine the bearing to those stations from your rove sites and carry a compass to make sure that you are on the correct bearing. It is easy to trust your instinct as to which direction is which, but your instinct is often wrong.
>
> 7) Operate in motion if possible. It is a lot easier to stay on schedule if you can operate in motion and if you have a second op that can drive, that helps a lot. It is really hard to pull up stakes and move if the band is open and you have a good run going, but being able to operate in motion helps this a lot. Plus travel time is a big chunk of a rovers assets and if you can be on the air when in motion you are making the most of the time you have available. I find operating while driving to be dangerous and don?t do it, but some others seem to be able to cope with it.
>
> 8) Have as many bands as possible. While roving, you probably heard the oft repeated question, ?Do you have any other bands?? More bands not only give you more QSO points and mults, but they also make people stick with you for a longer time and you will give them more points, which is good.
>
> Also, move people up the bands you have when you work them on the lower bands. Before you move, though, always ask if there are others on frequency who need to work you. Also, ask when you get to the new band if there are others to work before QSYing again.
>
> It is not so expensive to add even a minimal capability for new bands these days. One of the Transverters Store (Ukrainian) transverter and a WA5VJB easy Yagi will set you back about $100 and will yield lots of mults and QSOs, as well as build good will among the better equipped fixed stations.
>
> 9) If your wife is licensed, have her operate under her call as well, using the family rule. That way you will be providing twice as many QSOs for the fixed stations; something they will appreciate. There is an old adage in ham radio that a woman?s voice is worth 6 to 8 dB, which is perhaps sexist, but it is true that if you are in a pileup the station managing the pileup needs to sort out the stations and a women?s voice is easily distinguishable in this hobby.
>
> 10) Don?t be afraid to stretch your capabilities. Try to work stations at great distances, even if you don?t think it possible. That will add to the fun.
>
> 11) Coordinate with other rovers to make sure that you are not operating from the same spot at the same time and to see if you can put on grids that each other is not putting on. If possible, try to cross paths with another rover at least once in your rove, preferably when one or both of you are near a grid boundary. It is fun to work quickly on all the bands each has, move grids and do it again. A steady diet of this can be draining though, and is not viewed well by some fixed ops.
>
> 12) Ask for advice from local VHF ops. They can often help you with sites from which to operate, hints on who is on when, and tips on local operators not to miss.
>
> Notice I have not said much about equipment here. That is secondary to other considerations. But, if you want to look to improve your rover equipment, strive to be loud on two. Most QSOes with locals originate on this band, and if they can work you on two, chances are that they can work you on other bands as well. Be loud on two.
>
> I hope this helps. If not, or if I didn?t address the specific issues you had roving for the first time, let me know. I have more tips that may help. I hope that others chime in as well.
>
> Having said all that, roving is not for everyone. It can be hard work and is not always rewarding for the amount of time and effort one puts in. It is also not cheap, depending on how far you go, the price of fuel, and what kind of vehicle you rove in. But I find it fun and rewarding, and the thanks that many of the fixed stations give you when you give them a new mult is priceless.
>
> Listen for the weak ones. - Duffey KK6MC
>
> James Duffey KK6MC
> Cedar Crest NM
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 17:32:50 -0400
> From: Sean Waite <waisean at gmail.com>
> To: JamesDuffey <jamesduffey at comcast.net>
> Cc: vhfcontesting at contesting.com, detrick at merzhaus.org
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Making roving fun and interesting
> Message-ID:
> <CAGz_XJyr8hRTc6F9-dOBpNKX3PFDd=1Zer2cqg32ZMpHmzN8hQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Comments in line!
>
>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:44 PM JamesDuffey <jamesduffey at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Detrick - You wrote:
>>
>> ?we had fun, but I don't feel like we did it right, and don't entirely
>> know why we'd want to do it again.?
>>
>> And
>>
>> ?convince me that I should do rover (again)?
>>
>> Without knowing more about your specific rover experience it is hard to
>> make concrete suggestions, but here are a few things I have discovered over
>> the years to make roving more fun and interesting:
>>
>> 1) Be on at the beginning of the contest. People will then know you are
>> roving and look for you during the rest of the contest. A lot of people get
>> on at the beginning work everyone that is on and then leave. You will work
>> these people if you are on at the beginning, and more importantly, they
>> will know that you will be on and probably workable for the rest of the
>> contest from other grids, and possibly knew mults, so instead of abandoning
>> the shack, they will come back from time to time to work you. Activity is
>> much of what makes roving attractive.
>>
>>
> There is a big drop off after the beginning of the contest, and another
> bump usually right after dinner. Missing out on this time has cost us major
> points in the past.
>
>
>
>> 2) Location, that is sites from which you rove, is an important, perhaps
>> the most important, consideration in roving. While it is nice to setup in a
>> rare grid or on a mountain top, there are other considerations that may
>> make a more mundane site better to rove from. I have learned to start from
>> a site that is easily accessible to many VHF stations and from which it is
>> easy to get from one grid to another, like a grid convergence or grid
>> boundary. This has two advantages; one, most of the active stations will
>> know you are on from the get go and this will incentivize them to follow
>> you, and two, you can give stations 2 or 3 or even 4 multipliers right
>> away. This will sort of bond you to the fixed stations and they will follow
>> you around, knowing that you are for real and wanting to work you again.
>> After the initial QSOs, you can go further afield, perhaps to rarer grids,
>> or that mountain top.
>>
>>
> We've been warned off of grids like FN51 for this exact reason. No one
> beams towards the ocean, so even being in a rare grid no one is going to
> find you. Maybe a Sunday afternoon grid.
>
> If it's slower, definitely let the fixed stations know where you'll be
> headed next. "We'll be headed to FN32 in about an hour" and that sort of
> thing. Many of the bigger stations will ask.
>
>
>
>> For example, I often start my rove at the Moriarty convergence, a grid
>> corner about 35 miles from Albuquerque and 40 miles south of Santa Fe. I
>> can also work K5AM at his Horse Mountain QTH from here. I can get to good
>> locations in all four grids with a travel time of about 10 or 15 minutes.
>> Sometimes this is enough for the first day, sometimes I travel to new
>> grids. You don?t need a convergence for this to work as a boundary is good
>> too. If possible, visit the sites before the rove to ensure that they are
>> good places from which to operate.
>>
>> 3) Plan and schedule your route. Sit down with a road map or atlas, and
>> grid square map, or the equivalent internet resources like the HA8TKS grid
>> map and Google/Bing/Mapquest/Apple maps/Waze to plan a route. It is easy to
>> get travel times from those resources. Add 5 or 10 minutes or more as
>> margin, depending on the length to be traveled. Then put together a
>> schedule, including time starting at a grid and the time you will leave. It
>> is hard to keep on schedule if there are good band openings or you have
>> technical problems, but if people know when and where to look for you, that
>> will result in more QSOs. I find it easiest to try to leave a grid when I
>> say I am going to leave and that keeps me on schedule best, provided you
>> have planned realistically and not gotten too far behind schedule.
>>
>
> We've yet to keep to a schedule. We plan on Google Maps and get rough
> ideas, but it's really hard. Have options.
>
>
>
>>
>> As much as possible, plan your travels north-south. It is roughly half the
>> distance to get from one grid to another going north-south than going
>> east-west.
>>
>
> Excellent advice. We went diagonally through a pretty dead grid once and
> that was a huge drag. We lost a lot of points there - no one to work!
>
>
>>
>> 4) Publicize your rove. Once you have a route and schedule planned, send
>> it out to active VHFers in the area from which you will rove. If you have a
>> local, or semi-local VHF group, send your itinerary to their e-mail
>> reflector. Similarly, if there is a local contest club, send your itinerary
>> to them or have a member of the group send them your itinerary. Include
>> your cell phone number as it is OK to arrange for QSOs by text or phone
>> call as long as no QSO information is passed.
>>
>
> Also gather the phone numbers of big stations in your operating area! Call
> them, or text them, or whatever. That really helps when you're awful at
> following a schedule. It helps guarantee you contacts, and then you're
> making noise on the bands so other stations can find you. It also keeps the
> fixed stations interested in you and they will work to find you.
>
> I spam a ton of lists before we go out, and also email some people directly.
>
>
>>
>> 5) Use assistance resources. I find APRS and a cell phone to be very
>> useful. I use APRS-TX, an app for the iPhone, to send my location to the
>> internet APRS server. Then the fixed stations can look on APRS.fi to see
>> where I am and, with a little mental arithmetic, they can see if I am on
>> schedule and figure out where to point their antenna. Most of the fixed
>> stations I have talked to find APRS to be the easiest way to track me. I
>> also get texts (preferred) and phone calls from fixed stations when they
>> are trying to work me, usually when I am weak. Again, no QSO information
>> should be passed by phone.
>>
>
> On android there is the "roverstatus" app. You have to sideload it, but it
> will post to a twitter account. The appropriate hashtags get scraped by a
> bot and spots get posted to APRS.fi and some DX clusters. It's very helpful.
>
> We've also started beaconing on APRS. You're allowed to transmit on 144.390
> even if you're calling on 2m, it doesn't count against the "one signal per
> band" thing.
>
> A lot of stations are using ON4KST for coordination. It's something that I
> think K1SIG/R is going to have to start doing.
>
>
>>
>> 6) Know where active stations, especially the multi-multi stations, are.
>> Look in past results to get this information for your area. With
>> experience, you will know who you can work from where. Also, use a compass
>> to determine the bearing to those stations from your rove sites and carry a
>> compass to make sure that you are on the correct bearing. It is easy to
>> trust your instinct as to which direction is which, but your instinct is
>> often wrong.
>>
>
> Don't trust phone compasses either. They tend to be terrible. I print out a
> sheet that has bearings to the stations I think I can work for each of our
> planned major stops. That way I can find them quickly, and just aim beams
> at them if I can't reach them via other methods.
>
>
>>
>> 7) Operate in motion if possible. It is a lot easier to stay on schedule
>> if you can operate in motion and if you have a second op that can drive,
>> that helps a lot. It is really hard to pull up stakes and move if the band
>> is open and you have a good run going, but being able to operate in motion
>> helps this a lot. Plus travel time is a big chunk of a rovers assets and if
>> you can be on the air when in motion you are making the most of the time
>> you have available. I find operating while driving to be dangerous and
>> don?t do it, but some others seem to be able to cope with it.
>>
>
> Also remember that we're allowed dedicated drivers that don't count against
> the number of operators in the vehicle (assuming they do no other functions)
>
>
>>
>> 8) Have as many bands as possible. While roving, you probably heard the
>> oft repeated question, ?Do you have any other bands?? More bands not only
>> give you more QSO points and mults, but they also make people stick with
>> you for a longer time and you will give them more points, which is good.
>>
>> Also, move people up the bands you have when you work them on the lower
>> bands. Before you move, though, always ask if there are others on frequency
>> who need to work you. Also, ask when you get to the new band if there are
>> others to work before QSYing again.
>>
>
> Note that this can dramatically add to the complexity of the rove. Some
> people stick to Limited for this reason. Having multiple ops makes it much
> more reasonable.
>
>
>>
>> It is not so expensive to add even a minimal capability for new bands
>> these days. One of the Transverters Store (Ukrainian) transverter and a
>> WA5VJB easy Yagi will set you back about $100 and will yield lots of mults
>> and QSOs, as well as build good will among the better equipped fixed
>> stations.
>>
>
> SG lab also provides nice, inexpensive gear for the lower microwaves.
>
>
>>
>> 9) If your wife is licensed, have her operate under her call as well,
>> using the family rule. That way you will be providing twice as many QSOs
>> for the fixed stations; something they will appreciate. There is an old
>> adage in ham radio that a woman?s voice is worth 6 to 8 dB, which is
>> perhaps sexist, but it is true that if you are in a pileup the station
>> managing the pileup needs to sort out the stations and a women?s voice is
>> easily distinguishable in this hobby.
>>
>
> Do you find it worth using family rule, or better spent having a second op
> under one call? The fixed stations get more points, but it's even more to
> juggle for the rover.
>
>
>>
>> 10) Don?t be afraid to stretch your capabilities. Try to work stations at
>> great distances, even if you don?t think it possible. That will add to the
>> fun.
>>
>
> Dale AF1T is great at this for us. We'll work him on bands, and then he'll
> keep encouraging us to work other bands even when we don't think it's
> possible. We've been surprised a few times.
>
>
>>
>> 11) Coordinate with other rovers to make sure that you are not operating
>> from the same spot at the same time and to see if you can put on grids that
>> each other is not putting on. If possible, try to cross paths with another
>> rover at least once in your rove, preferably when one or both of you are
>> near a grid boundary. It is fun to work quickly on all the bands each has,
>> move grids and do it again. A steady diet of this can be draining though,
>> and is not viewed well by some fixed ops.
>>
>
> I wish we had this problem. We rarely even manage to work other rovers, let
> alone see them. Let's make it a problem!
>
>
>>
>> 12) Ask for advice from local VHF ops. They can often help you with sites
>> from which to operate, hints on who is on when, and tips on local operators
>> not to miss.
>>
>
> I'm not aware of any major VHF contest groups down in Virginia, but there
> may be one that I've missed. Many groups have public mailing lists. I live
> in Massachusetts and hang out on the Packrats (in PA/NJ/MD mostly), NEWS
> (local to New England), Rochester VHF and Ontario VHF lists. Basically
> anywhere I can get info about local goings on.
>
> Also find friends who may just have an HT. We worked a couple stations as a
> drive by because we called them up and asked if they could turn on the
> radio for a minute.
>
> Having a ridiculous looking rover also helps - in June another ham spotted
> us and called us on .52 to chat while he was on his way back down to NJ. He
> wanted to know what we were up to.
>
>
>>
>> Notice I have not said much about equipment here. That is secondary to
>> other considerations. But, if you want to look to improve your rover
>> equipment, strive to be loud on two. Most QSOes with locals originate on
>> this band, and if they can work you on two, chances are that they can work
>> you on other bands as well. Be loud on two.
>>
>
> Counter point - in June, be loud on 6. Everyone is there looking for the
> band openings. It's also worth spending a bit of time on here in the other
> contests, there are quite a few ops with just HF+6 rigs that will pop on
> from time to time. If you can call constantly on both 6 and 2 you'll be
> golden.
>
>
>>
>> I hope this helps. If not, or if I didn?t address the specific issues you
>> had roving for the first time, let me know. I have more tips that may help.
>> I hope that others chime in as well.
>>
>> Having said all that, roving is not for everyone. It can be hard work and
>> is not always rewarding for the amount of time and effort one puts in.
>
>
> I spend soo much time looking at maps... worth it when that random pull
> off on some interstate somewhere actually pays off, though.
>
>
>> It is also not cheap, depending on how far you go, the price of fuel, and
>> what kind of vehicle you rove in.
>
>
> Don't tell my wife this!
>
>
>> But I find it fun and rewarding, and the thanks that many of the fixed
>> stations give you when you give them a new mult is priceless.
>>
>
> It's particularly rewarding when you've worked a fixed station a number of
> times, giving him some points and you a lot, and then towards the end of
> the contest you manage to squeak in some new mults for that station. This
> past June we actually managed to work a Florida station from 2 different
> Northeast grids when 6 opened, so he was super happy with us.
>
> Working with the fixed stations, getting to know them, is incredibly
> helpful. They know that you're time in a grid may be limited, and they
> really do work to make sure they get you on as many bands from as many
> grids as they can. They'll look for you, spot for you, help try and liaison
> with the really weak stations to try and get the beams lined up so that
> both us and the distant guys can squeak another contact. We've also had
> offers of food and bathrooms. It's also great when you catch a station
> that's been trying to find you for a while - you know that there are
> stations looking for you.
>
>
>>
>> Listen for the weak ones. - Duffey KK6MC
>>
>> James Duffey KK6MC
>> Cedar Crest NM
>>
>>
>
> If you try it again are still not having fun, well we tried. I certainly
> wouldn't recommend anyone keep pushing forward if it isn't fun for them. It
> is a TON of work, so I understand.
>
> Good luck!
>
> 73,
> Sean WA1TE
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 20:06:25 -0400
> From: nosigma at aol.com
> To: detrick at merzhaus.org, waisean at gmail.com
> Cc: vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] 2018 June VHF Contest - Preliminary Resu
> Message-ID: <1656940e6fc-1ebc-ae7a at webjas-vaa026.srv.aolmail.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Detrick,
>
> It was a pleasure meeting you a few weeks ago and I sure hope to work you in September from many grids. Virginia is a great state to rove from.
>
> Check out your gear this weekend. I will be happy to run the lower bands with you SSB (no 222) or FM (all 4 bands) Saturday or Sunday just tell me when.
>
> Friday night before the contest head out the toll road and grab 81 north to FN-21 and get a good nights sleep. Alternately you could start at FN11 along I-99 near a grid corner. Coming back south on I-81 will run you through 11 grids (13 if you use I-99) with short detours to work the grid corners). Finish up in EM97 or cut it short in FM07 for an easy but late drive home.
>
> Altitude in increases as you go south so you can work the same stations to the north over and over again. You will be able to work skyline drive and occassionally the higher, 2nd west range of the blue ridge as you head south.
>
> The "rare" FM 28, 27, 26 grids will be open to you as you head south and ascend skyline with an eastern field of view.
>
> I won't pretend to give advice on rover operation tricks as I work fixed site FM. However I will second all of Seans comments with emphasis on publicizing the schedule. Email all stations you have worked before so they are looking for you. Post your route on this relector.
>
> If you want I will be happy to suggest hill tops in PA, MD and Va grids along either route. I have made a study of alterrnate sites to Reddish and Flagpole Knobs. If you can afford the time join me on Reddish for a couple hours.
>
> 73
> John
> KM4KMU
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>
>> On Thursday, August 23, 2018 Detrick Merz <detrick at merzhaus.org> wrote:
>> Randy Wing, wrote:
>> We all need to get others interested in roving and fixed operation!
>
> and Sean Waite, WA1TE, wrote:
>> I've been working on it. I almost had another rover...
>
> Here are some thoughts from the new guy on getting others interested: the
> wife and I did our first rover outing for June VHF this year. We only
> halfway knew what to expect, and have a ton to learn. In the end, we had
> fun, but I don't feel like we did it right, and don't entirely know why
> we'd want to do it again. Not that we don't, but I can't come up with any
> reason why. So there's perhaps one thing to do to get others interested:
> convince me that I should do rover (again).
>
> And here's the other part: how I even got started to begin with. I learned
> it was even a thing through Reddit after reading a post by KA5D. If you're
> not familiar, there's an Amateur Radio subreddit (
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Freddit.com%2Fr%2Famateurradio&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd3da5ed044bd48190ba408d609557d67%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636706660112368408&sdata=19qubzGS0AwPGHXZyShtJ1A%2FD%2FVDsVhaXjN8iFQG0M8%3D&reserved=0) that discusses any and all things ham
> related. Reddit has a generally younger crowd, and is probably a very good
> place to go trying to get others interested.
>
> -detrick
> K4IZ
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> End of VHFcontesting Digest, Vol 188, Issue 22
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