[VHFcontesting] FT4 Mode

Thu May 2 14:03:42 EDT 2019

Jay,

Well one answer would be that thje digital modes are more sensitive than CW
*and* not be be forgotten CW has not been required for what , 25-30 years
now?  There is a very large base of licensed amateurs out there who simply
do not know CW or are not proficient at it  So any of the digital modes
gives them alternative to SSB and that is a good thing.

Maybe it is geography but I simply do not understand the never ending
discussion of the need for speed.  I can think of one 6m opening in the
last five years where the "need for speed" really made a difference - yes,
we were on SSB.  VHF contesting is not HF contesting and most of the time
it is just not that fast.  That is really true when one gets above 6 and
probably 2 meters.

John

On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 1:48 PM Jay RM <w9rm at calmesapartners.com> wrote:

> The 'need for FT speed' reflects the huge QSO/hour disadvantage FT8 has vs
> SSB when the band is open.  Many 6M op's have foolishly abandoned SSB
> during contests, so the introduction of FT4 is an attempt to speed things
> up a bit.  We'll see whether the mode can ultimately live up to it's
> promise.  With all the mouse movements and click-click required, I doubt
> FT4 will perform anywhere near as well as an experienced human op using
> SSB.  We will see.
>
> Remember,  FT4 is advertised as a 'contesting' mode.  The idea of a contest
> is to maximize your score.  The best way to maximize a score is to run
> contacts as fast as possible over the duration of the contest.  So, one
> should use the fastest mode for the given conditions.  When the band is
> closed or marginal, you want to use the most sensitive mode.  This could be
> JT65 if the potential contact base is limited or FT8 if there are many weak
> stations to work (or CW, of course).  As the band opens, there will be a
> point where the intelligent operator needs to make a switch from
> 'sensitivity' to 'speed'.  Should this switch be FT8 to FT4 ?  No, because
> SSB is faster and certainly sensitive enough during a Es opening.
>
> If this is the case, why does FT4 really exist as a contest mode ?  It's
> not as good for weak signals as FT8 and it's most likely not as fast as
> SSB.  "Because we can" is not a sufficient answer for something that has
> shown the capability to totally upset the status quo of an entire band in a
> negative way (condensing an entire band full of  operators on to what is
> realistically one frequency).
>
> -W9RM
>
> Keith Morehouse
> via MotoG
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2019, 10:59 AM Mark Spencer <mark at alignedsolutions.com>
> wrote:
>
> > It is interesting to me that the new JT modes seem to be emphasizing
> > speed.   From my perspective I view the digital modes as a means of
> > completing qso's that can't be done with traditional analog modes and am
> > happy to trade off speed for better weak signal performance.   Or I like
> > really fast modes that can exploit brief propagation modes such as meteor
> > scatter outside of a major meteor shower.
> >
> > That being said the activity levels where I live are low enough that if I
> > manage to work more than 10 stations while activating a rare grid in VE7
> > land I consider the trip to be a great success (:   So my perspective may
> > be a bit unusual (:
> >
> > I'll be curious to see how this new mode works out in practice.  I
> > appreciate the efforts of the developers and early adopters / testers.
> >
> >   In the mean time I am expecting to use JT9 on 50 MHz this season.
> >
> > 73
> > Mark S
> > VE7AFZ
> > mark at alignedsolutions.com
> > 604 762 4099
> >
> > > On May 2, 2019, at 9:29 AM, Aa4zz via VHFcontesting <
> > vhfcontesting at contesting.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Per Joe Taylor's talk at the VHF Super Conference
> > > The  faster speed comes with a trade off of 4.5db less sensitivity.
> > > Of course for many QSO's that will not matter, but on weak signals it
> > may.
> > > 73 Paul AA4ZZ
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 10:47:01 -0700
> > > From: Brian Dickman <brian.dickman at gmail.com>
> > > To: VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> > > Subject: [VHFcontesting] FT4 mode
> > > Message-ID:
> > >         <
> > CAJnrbTwEcfmp0MVKXZV7kSc8OFhvTK9w-4YVE+hUHu_mvveMzg at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > Since the topic hasn't appeared on this list yet, I figured it would
> be a
> > > good idea to make folks here aware of the pending WSJT FT4 mode in case
> > > they hadn't seen it already.
> > >
> > > The tl;dr:
> > > * 2.5X faster than FT8
> > > * Same contesting features as FT8
> > > * Automatic search and pounce mode
> > > * 144.170MHz proposed 2m frequency
> > >
> > > To read more, here's a couple links:
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> >
> http://www.arrl.org/news/faster-more-contest-friendly-ft4-digital-protocol-to-debut-in-a-week
> > > * http://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/FT4_Protocol.pdf
> > > *
> > >
> >
> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2019/april/video-of-ft4-talk-by-joe-taylor-k1jt.htm#.XMc36OhKhaQ
> > > (video
> > > of a club talk Joe Taylor made about FT4)
> > >
> > > 73,
> > > --
> > > Brian AF7MD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
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