[WriteLog] digirite issues during the WW

Wed Sep 4 15:42:45 EDT 2019

Comments below …

Ed

From: Jeff Stai <wk6i.jeff at gmail.com> 
Sent: 04 September, 2019 11:53
To: Ed W0YK <ed at w0yk.com>
Cc: Writelog Reflector <writelog at contesting.com>; Wayne <support at writelog.com>
Subject: Re: [WriteLog] digirite issues during the WW

Sorry for the delay in coming back around, Ed. Busy with work stuff...

[Ed Muns] No problem.  Having trouble here keep all the balls in the air!

Appreciate ALL of your comments and I understand more now, thanks. I bring things up like this to share what I see and maybe some of it helps with the next iteration. I'm pretty firmly in the Digirite camp, it makes way more sense to me than WSJT.

[Ed Muns] +1  The more I use DigiRite, the more impressed I am.  WW Digi was the first contest I used it and the most intense use of it that I’ve done.  Yes, there are things that can be tweaked and features we can propose.  But, the look and feel of it is the best of any alternative I’ve seen.

I think the right/left click behavior needs to be reversed. Left should maintain my Tx, right should choose zero beat Tx. 

[Ed Muns] You’re overthinking this in my view.  I understand your analytical logic, but in practice either way works fine.  It becomes unconscious after a while.  Remember, I’m right-handed but 20 years ago I started mousing (or, trackballing) with my left hand in everyday PC work.  That trained me to be fully ambidextrous for SO2R contesting.  After just an hour or so of WW Digi (after I discovered the right- left-click feature for TX frequency control) it was second nature to call CQers on the frequency I wanted.  All this right-click/left-click stuff is reversed between my left and right hands …. But, even I have been able to make it all second nature.

When I was tuned to an “upper” contest segment, e.g., 14.082 and found a CQer below 1000 Hz, I often chose to answer on his TX frequency to be sure he heard me.  Just in case he was tuned to 14.080 with an audio frequency of 2500 Hz and I were to call at, say, 1500 Hz, he’d never hear me because I’m transmitting above his RX passband.  You’ll always be in his RX passband if you zero-beat, but you may also be in a pileup, though FT does pretty good at copying multiple zero-beat signals.

In general, left clicks are the typical, right clicks are the less-typical or special case. In RTTYrite you left click to get the call into Entry (typical), you right click to push the call to the call stack (less typical). I totally get why responding zero beat on the CQ Tx frequency is desirable (and I think it's pretty cool too!) but maintaining your own Tx is also desirable and I still think more typical. Having to right click most of the time is awkward on a mouse, and if you are using a trackpad, could be REALLY awkward. (Ed, you even called it an exception. :) )

[Ed Muns] Agree technically, but in practice it doesn’t matter based on my experience.

If I choose zero beat Tx, is there a way to go back to my previous Tx? I don't remember seeing that.

[Ed Muns] Right-click on the call in the QSOs in Progress pane and toggle the first menu entry (TX on their frequency).  Did this a LOT, so again it’s handy to be on a mouse click.

Thanks and 73! jeff wk6i

On Sun, Sep 1, 2019 at 6:19 PM Ed Muns <ed at w0yk.com <mailto:ed at w0yk.com> > wrote:

Comments below …

Ed W0YK

-----Original Message-----
From: WriteLog <writelog-bounces at contesting.com <mailto:writelog-bounces at contesting.com> > On Behalf Of Jeff Stai
Sent: 01 September, 2019 13:24
To: Writelog Reflector <writelog at contesting.com <mailto:writelog at contesting.com> >; Wayne <support at writelog.com <mailto:support at writelog.com> >
Subject: [WriteLog] digirite issues during the WW

Observations and suggestions. Overall a heck of a nice piece of code and I

very much preferred it over using WSJT-x.

[Ed Muns] Strongly agree.  This was confirmed again during the 22 hours I spent in WW Digi.  I really like WriteLog's RTTY and digital software design.

1. Check boxes unchecking. At various times - when re-sending - the check

boxes for the QSOs in progress, Calculated next, and/or the Automatically

Transmit Next would simply uncheck. One example would be answering a CQ,

then not seeing a CQ for a couple cycles, then seeing the CQ but whoops the

box is not checked so I don't get my answer sent in the next cycle.

Another case was I was calling CQ and saw a multiplier pop up in the CQ

window. I quickly clicked on the call and Automatically Transmit Next was

unchecked and I missed responding. And more than once I saw the call get

unchecked in QSOs in progress after just one or two resends.

In none of these cases and others was I anywhere close to the 5 minute

inactivity timeout. Maybe 2 or 3 minutes at the most.

[Ed Muns] The logic needed in DigiRite for handling QSO message sequencing, given all possible situations, is daunting, though at first glance it may seem simple.  I'm impressed it works as well as it does at this point in its development with the limited amount of experience users have had with it.

Check boxes "uncheck" for reasons other than timeouts.  They may need to uncheck based on what is happening in the QSO sequence(s).  This is especially true for the Calculated next pane where "next" is the next QSO phase.  Not only do boxes check and uncheck, but calls come and go.  DigiRite is trying to figure out what the next best move is and let the user know.

2. Scrolling in the CQ windows needs to be more "RTTYrite-like" and not

jumping around while populating. Trying to click on a moving target

resulted in some erroneous calls and lost Qs. Ditto the Messages to me

window (I operated with Auto respond unchecked.) I gather some sort of

prioritization is going on? But I prefer to choose who to contact next.

[Ed Muns] Agree that clickable lines in a pane cannot be moving around.  The RttyRite scroll technique is innovative and being copied by others for just this reason.

3. Calculated next - often was blank but the right next message was chosen

and sent anyway.

[Ed Muns] Agree.  Work in progress.

4. Sometimes I would see the expected message in the conversation window

but a repeat was sent as if the message hadn't been recognized.

[Ed Muns] Yes, this needs to be considered along with other feedback.

5. "Starting a QSO by answering a CQ message is the only way that DigiRite

puts its QSO's transmit frequency on the other station's RX frequency."

Someone needs to explain why this is desirable.

[Ed Muns] Ah, I can proudly answer this one because it tripped me up until I was enlightened with the very elegant solution that somehow I missed in the docs.  If you left-click on a CQ message line (not the checkbox, but the text line itself), your transmit frequency is zero beat with the CQer.  If you right-click, your transmit frequency is split (where you have your transmit frequency set).

This is VERY handy, because dynamically you can effortlessly choose where to transmit.  Most of the time I right-click, but occasionally I may choose to left-click when, say, the CQer is on 14.082.500.  In cases like this I can’t know where his radio dial frequency is set.  He could be at 14.080 with an audio frequency of 2,500 Hz, or he could be on 14.082 with an audio frequency of 500 Hz.  If he and I are on different dial frequencies, it is possible my TX frequency won’t be in his RX passband so he can’t hear me.  Zero-beating eliminates that possibility.

Over in the WSJT groups I see that it is considered poor practice to

transmit on the RX frequency - which I can see because someone could

already be using the other cycle. Usually I have gone to the trouble of

finding a clear place and I'd like to stay there. And if I am CQing and I

see a multiplier appear I want to be able to snag it and keep in my clear

spot.

I'd prefer to see a "Hold TX" like on WSJT-x so I keep my place no matter

what, or maybe let's just not do this?

[Ed Muns] In general, I agree, but there can be exceptions like the example above.  Fortunately, WriteLog makes it easy to do what’s best, on the fly.

6. I was amazed at seeing so many strong signals in the Transceive window

but seeing so few decodes as a result. Not sure what to make of that...

[Ed Muns] If the clock sync is off on a strong signal, it may not decode.  Or there can be other signal irregularities that prohibit decoding.  It’s no different than WSJT-X.  Probably because the decoder is the same software!

7. I'll echo the request I saw elsewhere for being able to do the longer

sequence with signal report when the other op expects it. I found I was

able to click and choose the alt message if I was quick but I had to be

right there after seeing the decode in the conversation window.  I see this

as analogous to a RTTY op getting conversational on you in a contest. It's

just polite practice, even if you'd rather not... :)

[Ed Muns] The Alternate messages worked well for me in this regard, with the exception that at times (which I couldn’t predict), selecting an Alternate message ALSO required checking the Manual Edit checkbox before the message went out.  Until I understand what I’m doing wrong (or, if a bug, it is fixed) my work-around is to quickly check the two boxes.  Even so, I was able to do it fast enough to enable smooth message flow … even SO2R.

8. I wish I had taken a screen shot of this, but last night I was noticing

some weirdness in the number of points per QSO. Stuff like an N5 being 5

points while a CE is 3 points. Also my score was like 4000 something. I

made a mental note the check on it later.

[Ed Muns] I would have taken issue with this observation, based on my prior experience, but ZW5B, which is PY5EG’s station, gave me 4 points.  I would have guessed 2.  So, maybe there is a glitch, but it doesn’t matter.  The log check software calculates points and ignores whatever the logger says.  We ignore the Cabrillo Claimed Score in the Raw Scores listing, rather using the log check software to calculate score without any log check error considerations.

This morning after I made my Cabrillo I went to do my 3830 post. That's

when I noticed my score was now 2000 something and my points now appeared

correct. I don't know when this change happened and I'm reasonably certain

I wasn't on drugs.

[Ed Muns] Well, I’m not sure I can corroborate the drug part, but glad the score seemed reasonable.  BTW, some of the 3830 scores do seem off, either low or high, but that’s just an anecdotal observation.

Thanks! jeff wk6i

-- 

Jeff Stai ~ WK6I ~ wk6i.jeff at gmail.com <mailto:wk6i.jeff at gmail.com> 

RTTY op at W7RN

Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/

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-- 

Jeff Stai ~ WK6I ~ wk6i.jeff at gmail.com <mailto:wk6i.jeff at gmail.com> 

RTTY op at W7RN

Twisted Oak Winery ~ http://www.twistedoak.com/