Amps
[Top] [All Lists]

[AMPS] explain this one

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] explain this one
From: measures@vc.net (Rich Measures)
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 12:17:44 -0700


>
>> At 06:53 AM 8/1/99 -0400, you wrote:
>> >
>> >> If the tank is resonated with too-light loading, the 'loaded' Q of the
>> >> circuit will be much higher and so will the voltage.  This can happen
>> >> due to an inexperienced operator or antenna switching mistake, etc.  I
>> >> think the bandswitch doesn't have a great enough margin of safety.
>> >
>> >You are correct Vic.
>> >
>> >The voltage will soar to whatever value necessary to until 
>> >something absorbs the power.
>> >
>> >It is virtually impossible to build a tank that will withstand voltages
>> >with no load at full drive.
>> >
>> >One of the demonstrations I used to do was with a MRF-150 FET 
>> >running at 12 volts, driving a tank with a loaded Q of ten. When the the
>> >load is removed the tank voltage goes to over 100 volts on peaks.
>> 
>> I'm inclined to agree with this, based on my own experience, but how does
>> this square with S56A's empirical data from an SB-220?  Mario's no dummy,
>> technically, so I have to wonder why he wasn't seeing even 2 x the anode
>> voltage.

?  Because Mario was measuring the potential on the Tune-C, not the 
potential at the anode. 
>
>Mario did not try all phase angles or even measure at full drive, he 
>did not want to ruin his PA.
>
?  Quoting Mario:
">>I have facilities to measure PA stages, and an actual SB-220.
>>With the amplifier in the SSB position on 7 MHz at 1100 watts output I
>>measured 2.4 kV peak on the tuning cap. When I mistuned the amp by fully
>>meshing the loading cap and adjusting the tuning cap for maximum voltage
>>I measured 3.7 kV peak. The supply voltage was ~ 3kV when mistuned.

--  When you make stuff up to support your case, Tom, you only undermine 
it.  .  

>No one on this reflector is dumb enough to think the switch in the 
>SB-220 will handle 5 kV or more, 

?  Anyone with a breakdown tester can find out.  5 min/. ago I checked a 
SB-220 bandswitch, and it starts to show some leakage at 5kV.  

> when the tuning cap breaks down 
>at ~3.5 kV. 

?  The Tune-C in my SB-220 breaks down at a bit under 4kV.  .  

> If the switch did break down at 5 kV plus, it could NEVER arc. 

?  provided that there was no dust in the air and the air wasn't extra 
humid, like it is today.  . 

> The tuning cap would always arc first, or the tubes or 
>some other component would arc first. 

?  My Tune-C has always arced first in my SB-220.  
>
>What Measures was claiming, and what Mario initially thought, 
>was that peak voltage could never exceed supply voltage. 

?   I did not claim such a thing.  My postition was that your claim of 
tank voltage soaring up, up and away to more than 9000v was imaginative.  

> Mario's initial comments to me was that exceeding the supply voltage with 
>peak tank voltage would amount to "perpetual motion". Once Mario 
>went well beyond proving his own initial view wrong, he quit. It was 
>obvious Rich's claims and Mario's initial thought that dc anode 
>voltage limits peak tank voltage is wrong.

?  You made the claim and put my name to it, Mr. Rauch.  
>
>Let me add one more common sense thought.
>
>Rich claims parasitics can arc the band switches and tuning caps, 

?  sometimes.  

>yet he claims or would have his "customers" think desired RF can not. 

?  I previously discussed how ordinary HF can produce tank arcs.  For 
instance, I know that when the antenna tuning capacitor arcs in my remote 
160m tuner, it sends a glitch back to the amplifier that produces a tank 
arc  -- and it's time to clean out insect feculence again.  .    .  Spilt 
coffee can also produce tank arcs.  

> If the peak anode voltage can not exceed the supply voltage as 
>Rich claims, then how does it do that with his parasitics?
>
?  Because VHF energy uniquely can not pass through a conventional HF 
tank, it has no place to safely dissipate, and therefore runs amok.  . 

>Rich has to have it his way, because it helps sell parts and kits. 
>Just like the "high quality expensive diodes" that he pays extra for 
>but won't name the manufacturer. 

?  To find out, I would have to walk out to the breezeway.  .  How about 
naming some good manufacturers and some not so good manufacturers, in 
your opinion, before I take the walk, Tom.   

>If he doesn't have the only cure 
>for every problem, his stuff has no special value.
>
?  My VHF suppressors exhibited 40% less VHF Q than conventional VHF 
suppressors at 100MHz in Wes' suppressor tests.  .  Granted, 40% isn't 
much.  However, is higher Q more desirable in a dampening device, Mr. 
Rauch? 
>
-  Cheers, Tom


Rich...

R. L. Measures, 805-386-3734, AG6K, www.vcnet.com/measures  


--
FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/ampfaq.html
Submissions:              amps@contesting.com
Administrative requests:  amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
Problems:                 owner-amps@contesting.com
Search:                   http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>