I read this today on the amps reflector.
"On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about
the GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator"
The GU-84B tube is NOT the same tube as the 4cx1600 tube.......they are
entirely different in size, and power output.
There was a tube called the GU-91B that is almost identical to the 4cx1600b
tube......the only difference being the GU-91B does have a slightly smaller
radiator than the 4cx1600b tube.......The GU-91B WILL WORK IN PLACE OF THE
4CX1600B TUBE.....The only thing you need to watch out for is that if you do
a lot of continious duty type modes like RTTY or SSTV ect, the GU-91B could
overheat unless you are careful........but for normal SSB useage, the GU91B
will work just fine.
I hope I have not confused the issues here, (my mind is still a little foggy
after my hospital stay) but if I have got things mixed up please excuse my
mistake.
73
Tom.....w4th......Tom's Tubes
Tom's Tubes: Amateur Radio Amp Tubes & Sockets, CTHRD Hand Made CW Keys,
K4POZ Screwdriver Antennas & G3SEK Triode/Tetrode Boards & Kits.
http://www.tomstubes.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: amps-request@contesting.com
Reply-To: amps@contesting.com
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Amps Digest, Vol 31, Issue 35
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 07:47:12 -0400
Send Amps mailing list submissions to
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than "Re: Contents of Amps digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Amps Digest, Vol 31, Issue 34 (K3vw@aol.com)
2. GU-84B Cooling (Will Matney)
3. Re: GU-84B Cooling (Dan K9ZF)
4. Fw: GU-84B Cooling (PA3DUV)
5. Re: GU-84B Cooling (gdaught6@stanford.edu)
6. Re: GU-84B Cooling (Will Matney)
7. Re: GU-84B Cooling (R.Measures)
8. Re: GU-84B Cooling (R.Measures)
9. Re: GU-84B Cooling (pa3duv@planet.nl)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:35:41 EDT
From: K3vw@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Amps Digest, Vol 31, Issue 34
To: amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <42.6d6427b6.300e93ed@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Did he run it grounded grid? What is filament voltage/ current of a GU-84B ?
Did he have to build a socket or can you buy them. What is plate disapation
of the 84B ? I think 2500 watts. Willy
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:53:19 -0500
From: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
To: amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20050719195320.5FB054BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about the GU-84B
(4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it was on a Russian amateur
website. What I had read was this tube was actually designed for running in
a missle by the Russians, and was designed for a 1 time use. So, they
undersized the radiator a good bit because of space limitations. They were
making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size being larger in the
discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed to be really good. So
this brings the delima of how to cool it so one would get a long life out of
it. One way would be add some sort of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made
of brass, with fins sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the
overall surface area. The only other way would be to increase the amount of
air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing this though, the
noise goes up from the blower. However, if one is going to dealve into using
the GU-84B, I'd s
uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its radiator and the
one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is cheaper than some others, it's
still expensive if you have to re-tube all the time. If I can remember where
I seen this, I'll post the link.
Best,
Will
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:15:14 -0500
From: Dan K9ZF <n9rla@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
To: Will Matney <craxd@engineer.com>
Cc: amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <42DD5F52.7030806@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Will Matney wrote:
>So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one would get a long life
>out of it. One way would be add some sort of extra aluminum heat fins, or
>some made of brass, with fins sticking out to catch more air, thus
>increasing the overall surface area. The only other way would be to
>increase the amount of air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When
>doing this though, the noise goes up from the blower.
>
>Best,
>
>Will
>
>
>
Water cool it?
73
Dan
--
K9ZF /R no budget Rover ***QRP-l #1269
Check out the Rover Resource Page at: <http://www.qsl.net/n9rla>
List Administrator for: InHam+grid-loc+ham-books
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:19:26 +0200
From: PA3DUV <pa3duv@planet.nl>
Subject: [Amps] Fw: GU-84B Cooling
To: amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <025101c58ca7$8afbc4f0$6c9a390a@TVLT001>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=response
Will,
In my twin tube GU84B amp one fan is used to pressurize the subchassis and
two axial fans to draw the air out.
With a B+ of 2900 VDC, from the 3 phase PSU the two GU84B tubes generate an
easy 6 kW of output. During normal (6 dB compressed) SSB transmissions the
exaust air stays below 55 degrees celcius.
Cheers, Dick Knol
PA3DUV
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
>To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:53 PM
>Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
>
>
>>On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about the
>>GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it was on a
>>Russian amateur website. What I had read was this tube was actually
>>designed for running in a missle by the Russians, and was designed for a
>>1 time use. So, they undersized the radiator a good bit because of space
>>limitations. They were making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size
>>being larger in the discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed
>>to be really good. So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one
>>would get a long life out of it. One way would be add some sort of extra
>>aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins sticking out to
>>catch more air, thus increasing the overall surface area. The only other
>>way would be to increase the amount of air flow and volume over the fins
>>that's there. When doing this though, the noise goes up from the blower.
>>However, if one is going to dealve into using the GU-84B, I'd s
>>uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its radiator and
>>the one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is cheaper than some
>>others, it's still expensive if you have to re-tube all the time. If I
>>can remember where I seen this, I'll post the link.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>Will
>>
>>--
>>___________________________________________________________
>>Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
>>http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Amps mailing list
>>Amps@contesting.com
>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:47:47 -0700
From: gdaught6@stanford.edu
Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
To: amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <42DD20A3.19877.1A01FDD@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On 19 Jul 2005 at 14:53, Will Matney wrote:
>On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about the
>GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it was on a
>Russian amateur website. What I had read was this tube was actually
>designed for running in a missle by the Russians, and was designed for
>a 1 time use. So, they undersized the radiator a good bit because of
>space limitations. They were making the comparison to a 4CX1500's
>radiator size being larger in the discussion. However the guts of the
>GU-84B supposed to be really good. So this brings the delima of how to
>cool it so one would get a long life out of it. One way would be add
>some sort of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with
>fins sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the overall
>surface area. The only other way would be to increase the amount of
>air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing this
>though, the noise goes up from the blower.
The radiator is comparatively small. But why not take to heart what
Rich, AG6K, says? "The only time there's too much cooling air is
when it blows the tube out of the socket!" (or something like that.)
If the blower is too loud, wear headphones. I wear them all the
time.
73,
George T. Daughters, K6GT
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 03:12:04 -0500
From: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
To: Amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20050720081204.3E61C4BEAD@ws1-1.us4.outblaze.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Dick,
I'm not saying it's a bad tube, and dont want none to think that. I just
dont want anyone to undercool the tube so it will last. Who knows, the
4CX1500 may have an over-sized radiator too! About the only way to tell
about the temp would be to use a thermocouple connected to the anode. Then
the temp read under contesting conditions both under SSB and AM using the
air flow they recommend. AM/CW creates a good bit more load on one as does
SSB transmissions. Then if the temp stays down where it should, one would
know it would be ok. I'm like Rich, and what George mentioned, use the
largest blower possible. Another thing too is maybe mount and external
blower and duct it to the amp. You can set one of these in another room to
help kill the sound down if it's a concern. On yours, you may have the right
combination by using enough fans both pushing and pulling. Have you measured
what the air flow and pressure is on your amp? If so, let us know so we all
have a starting point.
Best,
Will
----- Original Message -----
From: PA3DUV <pa3duv@planet.nl>
To: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:45:03 +0200
>
>Will,
>In my twin tube GU84B amp one fan is used to pressurize the
>subchassis and two axial fans to draw the air out.
>With a B+ of 2900 VDC, from the 3 phase PSU the two GU84B tubes
>generate an easy 6 kW of output. During normal (6 dB compressed)
>SSB transmissions the exaust air stays below 55 degrees celcius.
>Cheers, Dick Knol
>PA3DUV
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
>To: <amps@contesting.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:53 PM
>Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
>
>
> > On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about
> > the GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it
> > was on a Russian amateur website. What I had read was this tube
> > was actually designed for running in a missle by the Russians,
> > and was designed for a 1 time use. So, they undersized the
> > radiator a good bit because of space limitations. They were
> > making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size being larger
> > in the discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed to be
> > really good. So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one
> > would get a long life out of it. One way would be add some sort
> > of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins
> > sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the overall
> > surface area. The only other way would be to increase the amount
> > of air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing
> > this though, the noise goes up from the blower. However, if one
> > is going to dealve into using the GU-84B, I'd s
> > uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its
> > radiator and the one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is
> > cheaper than some others, it's still expensive if you have to
> > re-tube all the time. If I can remember where I seen this, I'll
> > post the link.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Will
> >
> > -- ___________________________________________________________
> > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amps mailing list
> > Amps@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
--
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Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 04:02:10 -0700
From: R.Measures <r@somis.org>
Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
To: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
Cc: Amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <0695c7b77d5d4292cc35d734e726c82b@somis.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Jul 20, 2005, at 1:12 AM, Will Matney wrote:
>Dick,
>
>I'm not saying it's a bad tube, and dont want none to think that. I
>just dont want anyone to undercool the tube so it will last. Who
>knows, the 4CX1500 may have an over-sized radiator too! About the only
>way to tell about the temp would be to use a thermocouple connected to
>the anode.
An IR thermometer would work.
>...
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: PA3DUV <pa3duv@planet.nl>
>To: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
>Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
>Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:45:03 +0200
>
>>
>>Will,
>>In my twin tube GU84B amp one fan is used to pressurize the
>>subchassis and two axial fans to draw the air out.
>>With a B+ of 2900 VDC, from the 3 phase PSU the two GU84B tubes
>>generate an easy 6 kW of output. During normal (6 dB compressed)
>>SSB transmissions the exaust air stays below 55 degrees celcius.
>>Cheers, Dick Knol
>>PA3DUV
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
>>To: <amps@contesting.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:53 PM
>>Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
>>
>>
>>>On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read about
>>>the GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it
>>>was on a Russian amateur website. What I had read was this tube
>>>was actually designed for running in a missle by the Russians,
>>>and was designed for a 1 time use. So, they undersized the
>>>radiator a good bit because of space limitations. They were
>>>making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size being larger
>>>in the discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed to be
>>>really good. So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one
>>>would get a long life out of it. One way would be add some sort
>>>of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins
>>>sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the overall
>>>surface area. The only other way would be to increase the amount
>>>of air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing
>>>this though, the noise goes up from the blower. However, if one
>>>is going to dealve into using the GU-84B, I'd s
>>>uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its
>>>radiator and the one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is
>>>cheaper than some others, it's still expensive if you have to
>>>re-tube all the time. If I can remember where I seen this, I'll
>>>post the link.
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>
>>>Will
>>>
>>>-- ___________________________________________________________
>>>Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
>>>http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Amps mailing list
>>>Amps@contesting.com
>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
>--
>___________________________________________________________
>Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
>http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>
>_______________________________________________
>Amps mailing list
>Amps@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
Richard L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734. www.somis.org
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 04:07:27 -0700
From: R.Measures <r@somis.org>
Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
To: Dan K9ZF <n9rla@yahoo.com>
Cc: amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <fffd55ee21291825e84cf7ea3237c09a@somis.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Jul 19, 2005, at 1:15 PM, Dan K9ZF wrote:
>Will Matney wrote:
>
>>So this brings the delima of how to cool it so one would get a long
>>life out of it. One way would be add some sort of extra aluminum heat
>>fins, or some made of brass, with fins sticking out to catch more
>>air, thus increasing the overall surface area. The only other way
>>would be to increase the amount of air flow and volume over the fins
>>that's there. When doing this though, the noise goes up from the
>>blower.
>>
>>Best,
>>
>>Will
>>
>>
>>
>
>Water cool it?
Large electric generators are cooled with hydrogen gas, which removes
heat c. 5-times more efficiently than air-cooling.
>
>73
>Dan
>
>--
>K9ZF /R no budget Rover ***QRP-l #1269
>Check out the Rover Resource Page at: <http://www.qsl.net/n9rla>
>List Administrator for: InHam+grid-loc+ham-books
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Amps mailing list
>Amps@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
Richard L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734. www.somis.org
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:47:04 +0200
From: pa3duv@planet.nl
Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
To: amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <18c76a518ce2e4.18ce2e418c76a5@planet.nl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Van pa3duv@planet.nl
Verstuurd op woensdag, juli 20, 2005 11:49 am
Aan Will Matney <craxd@engineer.com>
Cc
Bcc
Onderwerp Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
Will,
Perhaps I could measure the anode cooler temperature with a UV
thermometer.
"Contesting conditions" is a rather vague performance indicator, I
could run the amplifier flat out full carrier for a defined period of
time and then measure the cooler temperature afterwards.
I will set up a measurement session, measuring the pressure in the sub
chassis in mm-H2O and the temperature in degrees Celcius. It is very
difficult to measure the actual airflow without proper anemometers and
a measurement-tube.
The B+ current is approx. 3.5 amps @ 6000 watt output. The power gain
is approx 20 dB and the output power is adequate. The 3-phase B+
transformer is switched in a delta configuration, AC voltage between
the phases is approx 390 VAC @ 50 Hz. The airflow noise is of no
concern to me since I always use a headset. I'll get back with some
more detailed measurements later on.
Cheers, Dick Knol
PA3DUV
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: Will Matney <craxd@engineer.com>
Datum: woensdag, juli 20, 2005 10:12 am
Onderwerp: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
>Dick,
>
>I'm not saying it's a bad tube, and dont want none to think that.
>I just dont want anyone to undercool the tube so it will last. Who
>knows, the 4CX1500 may have an over-sized radiator too! About the
>only way to tell about the temp would be to use a thermocouple
>connected to the anode. Then the temp read under contesting
>conditions both under SSB and AM using the air flow they
>recommend. AM/CW creates a good bit more load on one as does SSB
>transmissions. Then if the temp stays down where it should, one
>would know it would be ok. I'm like Rich, and what George
>mentioned, use the largest blower possible. Another thing too is
>maybe mount and external blower and duct it to the amp. You can
>set one of these in another room to help kill the sound down if
>it's a concern. On yours, you may have the right combination by
>using enough fans both pushing and pulling. Have you measured what
>the air flow and pressure is on your amp? If so, let us know so we
>all have a starting point.
>
>Best,
>
>Will
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: PA3DUV <pa3duv@planet.nl>
>To: "Will Matney" <craxd@engineer.com>
>Subject: Re: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
>Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:45:03 +0200
>
> >
> > Will,
> > In my twin tube GU84B amp one fan is used to pressurize the
> > subchassis and two axial fans to draw the air out.
> > With a B+ of 2900 VDC, from the 3 phase PSU the two GU84B tubes
> > generate an easy 6 kW of output. During normal (6 dB compressed)
> > SSB transmissions the exaust air stays below 55 degrees celcius.
> > Cheers, Dick Knol
> > PA3DUV
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Matney"
><craxd@engineer.com>> To: <amps@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:53 PM
> > Subject: [Amps] GU-84B Cooling
> >
> >
> > > On a webpage somewhere, I cant remember now where, I read
>about
> > > the GU-84B (4CX1600) having an undersized radiator. I think it
> > > was on a Russian amateur website. What I had read was this
>tube
> > > was actually designed for running in a missle by the Russians,
> > > and was designed for a 1 time use. So, they undersized the
> > > radiator a good bit because of space limitations. They were
> > > making the comparison to a 4CX1500's radiator size being
>larger
> > > in the discussion. However the guts of the GU-84B supposed to
>be
> > > really good. So this brings the delima of how to cool it so
>one
> > > would get a long life out of it. One way would be add some
>sort
> > > of extra aluminum heat fins, or some made of brass, with fins
> > > sticking out to catch more air, thus increasing the overall
> > > surface area. The only other way would be to increase the
>amount
> > > of air flow and volume over the fins that's there. When doing
> > > this though, the noise goes up from the blower. However, if
>one
> > > is going to dealve into using the GU-84B, I'd s
> > > uggest looking into this and compare the sizes between its
> > > radiator and the one for the 4CX1500. Even though the tube is
> > > cheaper than some others, it's still expensive if you have to
> > > re-tube all the time. If I can remember where I seen this,
>I'll
> > > post the link.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Will
> > >
> > > -- ___________________________________________________________
> > > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> > > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Amps mailing list
> > > Amps@contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
>--
>___________________________________________________________
>Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
>http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>
>_______________________________________________
>Amps mailing list
>Amps@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Amps mailing list
Amps@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
End of Amps Digest, Vol 31, Issue 35
************************************
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