Amps
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [Amps] SS amps watercooling - was PowerGenius XL

To: "amps@contesting.com" <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] SS amps watercooling - was PowerGenius XL
From: "Ray, W4BYG" <w4byg@att.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 19:05:27 -0500
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
FYI: I'm afraid I have to disagree on the statement below about distilled water being conductive.

In industrial experiments in the use of distilled water, I found it to be very non-conductive. If I recall correctly, it has a measured conductivity of 50 to maybe 100 micro-Siemens per centimeter squared. That's not much. Pure water becomes conductive only if it becomes contaminated with salt like contaminates. For a comparison, seawater typically measures in the thousands of micro-Siemens per centimeter squared, because of the high salt content.

While working on a clients project to do so, I spent many hours attempting to inject RF into water of various solutions. It was very difficult in the lab trying to get RF to propagate thru pure water. Other more contaminated solutions not so much..
73,
Ray, W4BYG

On 2/20/2017 12:43 PM, Jim Thomson wrote:
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:15:55 -0500
From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net>
To: Big Don <bigdon39@gmail.com>
Cc: "amps@contesting.com" <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] SS amps watercooling - was PowerGenius XL


Wouldn't Amps, or Ham Amps be a better reflector for this thread?

Were talking distilled water here. If it's conductive enough to present
a danger, it's long past time for a replacement.

When I was a Tech (before going back to college) it was rare to have
water spraying around inside those 100, 200, and even 250 KW generators
and the load coils were exposed.

Water cooling is a simple, mature technology.  Water cooling is rather
simple. It's the monitoring that can get complicated.  In high voltage
areas, we used linear (solenoid) coils of clear Tygon tubing to get the
necessary high resistance.

The simplest was a clear plastic block, drilled and tapped for all the
water exhausts.  You could see at a glance  how well any water circuit
was doing.  Simple, cheap, and foolproof "IF THE OPERATOR PAID ATTENTION".

73, Roger (K8RI)

On 2/15/2017 5:24 AM, Big Don wrote:
Water-cooled amps HEALTH TIP --
There are enough ways to *electrocute* yourself playing with amps
without having leaked water spraying everywhere....
Don  N7EF

####  Wife uses distilled water for her breathing machine at night.   I just 
checked the
resistance of distilled water... vs tap water.   Distilled water resistance is 
sky high, I mean
really high.   Distilled water comes in 4 litre jugs, dirt cheap at any of the 
local grocery stores.

##  I use it myself for the mustang engine and supercharger.  Ditto with the 
ford fusion.
At the telco I worked at, we used nothing but distilled water  for the huge  2 
v dc cells, typ
24 in a series string.   We brought in pallets loads of 5 gal  distilled water 
containers.   We also
used distilled  water for the big start batteries for the emergency generators. 
  These days,
start batteries are all sealed.

##  distilled water is so dirt cheap, and resistance is so high, and LDMOS  
only uses 50 vdc,
whats the issue ?   You could toss a bucket of  distilled water into a 7 kv dc  
  B+ supply..and
nothing will happen.

##  BTW, per einacs care and feeding, it sez  air cooling will remove 50 watts  
per square CM
of internal anode area.    Vapor phase cooling will remove  135 watts per 
square CM of
surface area.  Water cooling will remove 1000 watts per square CM.   Vapor 
phase cooling is
only more eff, in that it does not require a pump, and uses a lot less water.  
Depending on the size
of the rad, and if its  mounted vert or horz, u may not even require a fan for 
the rad.

##  water  cooling requires more water circulation, and a big rad, and forced 
air through the rad,
but it will  remove heatr faster than any  other method... except maybe  freon.

##  If u look at modern HVAC  cooling sytens on commercial buildings these 
days, they now mount the
huge rads parallel to the roof,  instead of vertical.   Heat rises, and the 
rads work more eff if mounted
horz  vs vertical.   They still use a fan below the rad though.   telcos use 
lotsa AC during winter, due to the
heat of the equipment, so in winter, night time, cool wx, the fan for the rad 
is not always required.

##  In a lot of cases, they  will shoot  water through the vert mounted rads, 
to cool em.   They use
freon to do the actual cooling, and water to cool the freon, then more water to 
 cool the rads,so 3 loops
in total.

##  For LDMOS, the pair of water lines could easily be routed to else where, 
then a speed
controlled fan on a small rad, and ditto with a  variable flow rate pump.   A  
12,000  BTU small rad
from jegs, or any of the other speed shops cost <   $50.00   And thats for a 
.75 inch thick  core.
The higher capacity rads are just thicker, like 1.5 inches thick.   I use one 
for my auto tranny.
oem cooler is marginal when a supercharger  is used, so added a high eff  bar + 
plate  type  rad, in
series with oem rad, problem solved.    Old style  tube and fin type rads are 
going out of vogue these days.
Small oil coolers and auto tranny rad coolers would work just fine with 
distilled water.

##  U would end up with a dead quiet LMOS  setup.  Use enough combiners, and 
you could get..on paper,
5 or 10 kw pep out if required.   Combining 2 or even 4 ...  of those 2.4 kw 
pep output LDMOS amps
has already been done.   So you could use them as building blocks.   This is 
all into a dummy load
of course, for pure scientific analysis.

Jim   VE7RF

_______________________________________________
Amps mailing list
Amps@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps


--
I'm no longer young enough to know everything!

_______________________________________________
Amps mailing list
Amps@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>