The answer to the question why some of these habitual never ending
complainers never send their rigs back to or consult with Ten Tec is because
....They Don't Own an Orion...! I believe I am not the first to point this
out.
They just like to impress us with their perodic rants of techno mumble
jumbo. A large number of the anti-Orion propagandists don't have a clue
other than what they read here or on a couple of other REALLY unbiased
reflectors:) They parrot the comments of a few and become an instant anti
Ten Tec / Orion expert.
Seriously---I think if they want to comment on the Orion they should be
required to preface their posts with their Orion serial number to be taken
seriously. Their comments have as much credibility as would ARRL, Sherwood
or anyone else who chose to write a review and commentary on a product they
had never seen. Their comments take legaleze "hearsay" to an all new
level...worthless in court and worthless here.
On the plus side, we all know those who have the real knowledge, experience
and desire to be constructive on this reflector and I for one thoroughly
enjoy the give and take involved in constructive criticism..it helps us
all..it helps the Orion through some growing pains and pulls this group of
great folks together as a team effort. Proud owner of #52. Tommy WD4K
PS, I did send mine back early on but it was MY fault. They sent it
back --no charge for shipping or their diagnostics. Great!
-----Original Message-----
From: tentec-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of
tentec-request@contesting.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:49 PM
To: tentec@contesting.com
Subject: TenTec Digest, Vol 18, Issue 84
Send TenTec mailing list submissions to
tentec@contesting.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
tentec-owner@contesting.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TenTec digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. TenTec Orion Reliability (Robert & Linda McGraw K4TAX)
2. Re: TenTec Orion Reliability (Billy Cox)
3. Re: IC-7800 Review (Tommy)
4. My Orion (Tommy)
5. Reflector behavior (Dave Clark)
6. test (K6HCJ@aol.com)
7. Estate Sale items (K6HCJ@aol.com)
8. Re: TenTec Orion Reliability (Bill Rowlett)
9. Re: TenTec Orion Reliability (Ron Martin)
10. Re: Re: TenTec Orion Reliability (Grant Youngman)
11. Re: TenTec Orion Reliability (Bob Henderson)
12. FS: Ten Tec Paragon (NZ8J)
13. Re: FS: Ten Tec Paragon (Clark Savage Turner)
14. Re: Reflector behavior (Gerald Bell)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:39:46 -0500
From: Robert & Linda McGraw K4TAX <RMcGraw@Blomand.Net>
Subject: [TenTec] TenTec Orion Reliability
To: tentec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <001701c45ec9$3c196070$c1b34ace@s0024901093>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I can understand Tom's concerns. At the same time it is my belief that
something that is deemed "unreliable" is something that fails frequently or
something that has demonstrated repeated failures.
Actually, in reading about Tom's concerns, this may be a case of software
not performing or causing the Orion to perform up to expectations. If
operations are "abc" one day and then "acb" the next and then with an
occasional "x" thrown in, this demonstrates some instability in the MP or
the memory. Typically, memory access speed is a cause for concern when
these events occur. Perhaps there is a component or components that can be
replaced to cause repeated consistent operations. Case after case I have
personally witnessed components of the same type, identical for all
purposes, but from different manufacturers, i.e. Toshiba, Futgitsu, TI,
Motorola and such that perform differently although the "specs" are the
same. This can even extend down to different productions lots of the same
type from the same manufacturer. Things like this drive us "software nuts"
nuts!
In my case I have a Brand X radio that has been to the manufacturer's
service center some 5 times in the past 18 months. In each case there was
identified a component fault but never the same component according to them.
This is a case of classic "unreliability" at its finest in my book. And
yes, the Brand X company has graciously sent me an invoice with each repair.
While I've requested their understanding, they seem very un compassionate to
specifically address my concerns.
And for those that know me personally then you know, and for those that
don't know me, be advised that I worked for a major Japanese electronics
company for some 15+ years. I have a clue as to their thinking and business
practice.
73
Bob, K4TAX
----- Original Message -----
From: "N Kirk Pearson" <nkirkpearson@bresnan.net>
To: <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Orion Reliability was IC-7800 Review
> Bob Henderson wrote:
>
> >Tommy
> >
> >I am always more than a little curious when I read your reports. You
appear
> >to be very dissatisfied with the reliability of your Orion.
> >
> ><snip> <alot of Snip>
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't care what's going on with the IC-7800...I would like my
> >Orion to be a reliable piece of amateur radio equipment!!!!!
> >
> >Tom - W4BQF
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> It seems that there is an unpardonable sin on this reflector to
> criticize any Ten-Tec product esp. the Orion. I like Ten-Tec alot but
> Tom's complaint sounds reasonable to me. A guy spends 3000+ dollars on a
> radio he wants it to work. I will be leaving this reflector for this
> very reason. I encourage you (Tom) to make use of Ten-Tec's excellent
> service. I have spoken to Paul and others there and without exception
> they have never talked down to me or failed to help with any problem.
> Good luck with your Orion it should be a great radios when it is finished.
> 73, Kirk KI7YY
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:01:14 -0500
From: "Billy Cox" <aa4nu@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Orion Reliability
To: <tentec@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <00b401c45ecc$3f783b80$6401a8c0@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>I can understand Tom's concerns. At the same time it is my belief
>that something that is deemed "unreliable" is something that fails
>frequently or something that has demonstrated repeated failures.
Certainly each person is entitled to their own "my belief", but such
is not an indication of any accuracy nor truth in the matter ...
ONE weekend without problems is what I recall Tom stated.
ONE weekend ...
For the $3500 ... should he receive a bit more than that as to value?
"My belief" is yes, he should be able to turn the equipment on,
and NOT be concerned will it work THIS time ...
The "world's best rig" has a net value of ???? when it quits
transmitting or receiving? $3500? I don't think so ...
That's the bottom line ... you may attempt to explain it away as to being
software related issues ... but that certainly does not excuse it! It's sad.
I DO believe TT is working to resolve the issues at hand ... but it's to
the point of almost being humorous of some of the justifications that
"performance" such as Tom is experiencing is OK for the price paid.
73 Billy AA4NU
... who is part of an American electronics firm that
will begin TS quality training after the holidays. We
already hold the other standards, so see, I also do
understand the various FMEA issues discussed.
FMEA = Failure Mode and Effect Analysis
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:04:09 -0400
From: "Tommy" <aldermant@alltel.net>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] IC-7800 Review
To: <tentec@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <001201c45ecc$a4cdb320$197a66a6@w4bqf2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks for your input Lee. It is certainly helpful with my troubleshooting
process.
I don't agree with you about the Orion being a gas, I do however believe it
is a significant technology leap forward for amateur radio equipment.
However at this point, I think the problem is well in hand and in the
process of being solved.
Tom - W4BQF
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Crocker" <w9oy@yahoo.com>
To: <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:25 AM
Subject: [TenTec] IC-7800 Review
> I saw a IC-781 setup on EHAM for $3000, just about
> what you can sell your Orion for. Then you will be
> relieved of the tremendous pain you seem to incur when
> operating this radio.
>
> Personally I think the Orion is a gas. It is true
> however a glass 99% full is 1% empty. There is no
> denying that. From the thus far reviews of the
> IC-7800 it would appear that glass is much less than
> 99% full. I found the comment that 7800's sensitivity
> to hearing key clicks much sooner to be hilarious.
>
> 73
>
> W9OY
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:44:04 -0400
From: "Tommy" <aldermant@alltel.net>
Subject: [TenTec] My Orion
To: <tentec@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <004b01c45ed2$38bb2b30$197a66a6@w4bqf2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Folks,
To me, my Orion is not reliable in my situation, and in my station system,
and the way I use my ham radio. This certainly does not mean that the Orion
has these same failures in other system set up's. There are many hams who do
not use the Orion in the same manner that I do, and those hams are not
seeing the same problem I see. I'm in contact with a fellow ham who uses two
Orion's in a SO2R set up and his system is quite reliable and he has found
none of the same problems that I have. But he has his amplifiers set up
somewhat different from the way I have mine. Both set up's are valid uses of
the Orion however.
I would like to thank everyone for their helpful comments, but would also
like to make sure I'm not leaving the impression that the Orion is a dud!
It certainly is not. I would like to close my part of this thread because
there are several new methods available to get my problems resolved, with
which I am proceeding at this time. Once the problems are resolved, I would
be glad to share the information with anyone interested.
Again, thanks for your help and comments.
73,
Tom - W4BQF
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Clark <w8do@yahoo.com>
Subject: [TenTec] Reflector behavior
To: TenTec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20040630184900.9784.qmail@web60710.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I've been watching the Ten-Tec Reflector for several months ... as I'm
waiting for a new Orion to be delivered. Reading members comments is most
helpful, however it would be nice to keep comments to a more respectful
tone. Nothing will be served by insulting others!
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:23:29 EDT
From: K6HCJ@aol.com
Subject: [TenTec] test
To: tentec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <1e6.2402c19b.2e146d31@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
k6hcj
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:46:17 EDT
From: K6HCJ@aol.com
Subject: [TenTec] Estate Sale items
To: tentec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <1e.2d5236bc.2e147289@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Ten Tec Argosy I Model 525 and matching Power Supply model 225. For
collector or user!
Argosy Ser.# 416 is absolutely pristine. Variable 0-50 watts output. Only
<"
mark on bottom cover otherwise flawless cosmetically. Options include: 25khz
cal, noise blanker, all filter slots are filled. Includes a hand mic.
Analog dial cord pointer slips but it moves. Include original manuals. Power
supply, ser. # 130 is cosmetically 9+. $240 obo + shipping.
Marv Fagenson, K6HCJ@aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 19:36:43 +0000
From: "Bill Rowlett" <kc4atu@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Orion Reliability
To: tentec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <BAY14-F34YkNUTvl7PD00034584@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>I DO believe TT is working to resolve the issues at hand ... but it's to
>the point of almost being humorous of some of the justifications that
>"performance" such as Tom is experiencing is OK for the price paid.
What is humorous is the why some complain over and over here, when most of
us would have made a call to TenTec and the rig would be shiped back for a
fix.
They are one of the best if not the best service department around, so use
them.
73, Bill kc4atu
_________________________________________________________________
Make the most of your family vacation with tips from the MSN Family Travel
Guide! http://dollar.msn.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 20:03:08 GMT
From: Ron Martin <royalct@inr.net>
Subject: [TenTec] Re: TenTec Orion Reliability
To: tentec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20040630200308.92531.qmail@qmx1.inr.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"
Still, I don't have those problems.............
Ron.....NU1U
Billy Cox writes:
>>I can understand Tom's concerns. At the same time it is my belief
>>that something that is deemed "unreliable" is something that fails
>>frequently or something that has demonstrated repeated failures.
>
> Certainly each person is entitled to their own "my belief", but such
> is not an indication of any accuracy nor truth in the matter ...
>
> ONE weekend without problems is what I recall Tom stated.
>
> ONE weekend ...
>
> For the $3500 ... should he receive a bit more than that as to value?
>
> "My belief" is yes, he should be able to turn the equipment on,
> and NOT be concerned will it work THIS time ...
>
> The "world's best rig" has a net value of ???? when it quits
> transmitting or receiving? $3500? I don't think so ...
>
> That's the bottom line ... you may attempt to explain it away as to being
> software related issues ... but that certainly does not excuse it! It's
sad.
>
> I DO believe TT is working to resolve the issues at hand ... but it's to
> the point of almost being humorous of some of the justifications that
> "performance" such as Tom is experiencing is OK for the price paid.
>
> 73 Billy AA4NU
> ... who is part of an American electronics firm that
> will begin TS quality training after the holidays. We
> already hold the other standards, so see, I also do
> understand the various FMEA issues discussed.
>
> FMEA = Failure Mode and Effect Analysis
>
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:31:25 -0500
From: "Grant Youngman" <nq5t@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Re: TenTec Orion Reliability
To: tentec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <40E2DCCD.11630.AE62ADD@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> > For the $3500 ... should he receive a bit more than that as to
> > value?
> >
> > "My belief" is yes, he should be able to turn the equipment on, and
> > NOT be concerned will it work THIS time ...
I hope that Tommy lets us know what it finally takes to resolve the
problems he's experiencing. It will be helpful to everyone.
As far as "value" is concerned, I always have to chuckle when someone
argues that for $$BIGBUCKS there should be no problems, blah, blah ...
No matter what the price, there will be problems of one kind or the other.
Some small percentage of any box or product you choose to mention will
escape the factory with a QA glitch in the best ISO-9xxx shop, or
something in a unique environment will jump in and expose some
otherwise unapparent sensitivity, or a good sharp UPS bounce will unseat
something or ... <make up your own>.
We raise our eyebrows, let loose with a nervous laugh, and go on about
our business when some $1B satellite turns to junk on impact, and argue
for days (weeks?) when a $10 item doesn't work to our satisfaction.
The radio doesn't know it's own price, and nothing is perfect .. :-)
Grant/NQ5T
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:19:45 -0000
From: "Bob Henderson" <bob@cytanet.com.cy>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Orion Reliability
To: <tentec@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <002301c45ee7$f80dd950$0100a8c0@shack1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Billy Cox" <aa4nu@ix.netcom.com>
To: <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Orion Reliability
> ONE weekend without problems is what I recall Tom stated.
>
> ONE weekend ...
>
> For the $3500 ... should he receive a bit more than that as to value?
>
Billy
I would be amazed if you find anyone to disagree with you. If I, as an
Orion owner, had Tom's experience I would be tearing my hair out. I imagine
those other Orion owners who still have hair would be doing likewise!
Bob, 5B4AGN
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:33:18 -0400
From: "NZ8J" <nz8j@woh.rr.com>
Subject: [TenTec] FS: Ten Tec Paragon
To: <TenTec@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <010201c45ee9$dc2241c0$6400a8c0@NZ8J>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have a nice condition Ten Tec Paragon for sale (ser # 04B10081). It has
the Ghiel chip in it and I also have a new original Ten Tec chip. Comes with
a 500hz cw filter, original manual and power cord. It is about an 8 overall
condition physically and works good electrically. I think the readout might
be off by 50hz or so, but it's probably just the ref osc or BFO adjustment.
I have added the recommended mod to allow for QRP operation, the power
output is from a little less than 1 watt to approximately 100 watts
depending on the band. I have also disabled the amp relay so it doesn't
kick in and out when either sending cw or PTT on the mic (it would be easily
enabled again with a drop of solder). It is all band transmit and is ready
for 60 meters. I can send pictures for those interested. Since it has a
couple of mods and the freq readout/BFO may need adjusting, I am selling it
for $450 plus shipping.
thanks
Tim
NZ8J
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:58:44 -0700
From: Clark Savage Turner <csturner@kcbx.net>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] FS: Ten Tec Paragon
To: tentec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <09CE4F14-CAE9-11D8-B199-0003937A2CB6@kcbx.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Hi Tim -
I'd like to see a picture or two! I may be interested, wish you luck in
raising money (are you buying an Orion?)
Clark
WA3JPG
On Wednesday, June 30, 2004, at 02:33 PM, NZ8J wrote:
> I have a nice condition Ten Tec Paragon for sale (ser # 04B10081). It
> has
> the Ghiel chip in it and I also have a new original Ten Tec chip. Comes
> with
> a 500hz cw filter, original manual and power cord. It is about an 8
> overall
> condition physically and works good electrically. I think the readout
> might
> be off by 50hz or so, but it's probably just the ref osc or BFO
> adjustment.
> I have added the recommended mod to allow for QRP operation, the power
> output is from a little less than 1 watt to approximately 100 watts
> depending on the band. I have also disabled the amp relay so it doesn't
> kick in and out when either sending cw or PTT on the mic (it would be
> easily
> enabled again with a drop of solder). It is all band transmit and is
> ready
> for 60 meters. I can send pictures for those interested. Since it has a
> couple of mods and the freq readout/BFO may need adjusting, I am
> selling it
> for $450 plus shipping.
> thanks
> Tim
> NZ8J
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TenTec mailing list
> TenTec@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:48:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gerald Bell <g_michaelbell@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Reflector behavior
To: david.clark@wmich.edu, tentec@contesting.com,
TenTec@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20040630234816.94032.qmail@web81305.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Ditto, Dave. Thanks for the comment.
KB0DLR
Dave Clark <w8do@yahoo.com> wrote:
I've been watching the Ten-Tec Reflector for several months ... as I'm
waiting for a new Orion to be delivered. Reading members comments is most
helpful, however it would be nice to keep comments to a more respectful
tone. Nothing will be served by insulting others!
_______________________________________________
TenTec mailing list
TenTec@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
TenTec mailing list
TenTec@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
End of TenTec Digest, Vol 18, Issue 84
**************************************
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