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Re: [TenTec] Wish List for ORION-III

To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Wish List for ORION-III
From: Cecil <chacuff@cableone.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 18:10:22 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
I won't buy a high end radio that is point and click...just ain't happening.  
Full front panel...stand alone from a separate computer.  Guess i am old school 
and I don't expect it to change.  Don't care much for small radios either for a 
fixed station radio.  I could certainly afford a loaded out K3 and I'm sure 
it's a great radio but it's too small for my likes for a fixed main station 
rig...so I use my OII.  My eyesight has changed in the last 20 years and will 
probably in the next 20.  The more things are spread out and easier to 
grab/push the better.

I know that goes against the trend in technology but the user interface has to 
fit the user and the fact is we're a bunch of aging baby boomers and that's 
where the money is right now too...

Cecil
K5DL

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2014, at 3:22 PM, "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP" <Rick@DJ0IP.de> wrote:
> 
> Excellent.  That is exactly the POD I had in mind when I wrote that!
> 
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Moreschi
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 8:01 PM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Wish List for ORION-III
> 
> I have now fully integrated the Woodbox radio Tmate2 with all my software.
> The Tmate2 has 3 knobs and 9 buttons and you can choose from a list of over
> 60 functions to set for each control.  Additionally the
> Tmate2 has a nice LCD display on it.  This is a new feature that I have
> added and it is available in beta form on my test page.  If you want to try
> this out, send an email to me and I will provide full info.
> 
> I also have full implementation for the Flex Knob from Flex radio.
> 
> Carl Moreschi N4PY
> 58 Hogwood Rd
> Louisburg, NC 27549
> www.n4py.com
> 
>> On 4/8/2014 11:14 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>> You may very well be correct, Carl.
>> Rob hasn't sent me any data on the 6500 yet.
>> 
>> I was assuming its performance and behavior will be in the ballpark of 
>> the 5000.
>> Just shows to go ya, assumptions are always dangerous!
>> 
>> All my earlier comments were based on my knowledge of the 5000's 
>> performance so they may be totally off on the 6500, but I have to say 
>> I remain skeptical until I've seen lab measurements and heard field 
>> feedback from a larger Field Day operation.
>> REMEMBER: We were all astonished by the 5000's lab measurements, only 
>> to get a reality check at Field Day.
>> 
>> However, still no knobs!
>> 
>> We're beginning to see some nice 3rd party PODs hit the market, so 
>> maybe that problem will get solved too.
>> Then we only have to work on the price!
>> 
>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl 
>> Moreschi
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 4:47 PM
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Wish List for ORION-III
>> 
>> NO the 6500 does not behave like the 5000.  The 6500 has a clip point 
>> of
>> S9 + 80 DB.  That's a HUGE signal.
>> 
>> Carl Moreschi N4PY
>> 58 Hogwood Rd
>> Louisburg, NC 27549
>> www.n4py.com
>> 
>>> On 4/8/2014 9:40 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>>> Carl, Yes AND NO!
>>> 
>>> For all of us operating at home (alone), YES.  At least as far as 
>>> technology goes.  Not sure if operator acceptance is there yet.
>>> 
>>> But, for a Field Day, especially a larger club with 5 or 6 
>>> transmitters, you often find yourself in the situation that there are 
>>> two stations operating on 40m at the same time (1 in CW, 1 in SSB), 
>>> and two stations operating on 20m at the same time.  Under THESE 
>>> circumstances, the BDR3 of a Flex 6500 radio (or similar) drops by 20+dB!
>>> A K3 under the same circumstances does not drop in BDR3 at all and 
>>> will easily out-perform the Flex.
>>> 
>>> As it turns out, precisely the components that helps this technology 
>>> achieve the great performance (by avoiding Crystal filter, additional 
>>> oscillator, mixer, etc., all of which can cause additional IMD), are 
>>> the cause of the drop in BDR3 in this specific case.  Not having 
>>> these components in the radio causes this drop.  A decent crystal 
>>> roofing filter would avoid this drop.
>>> IT'S A DOUBLE SIDED SWORD.
>>> 
>>> It's described in one of Rob Sherwood's presentation (I forgot which 
>>> one, but it's on my web).  In that specific case it was the Flex 
>>> 5000, but the
>>> 6500 will behave just like this.
>>> It was in one of the "BARC" presentations (probably 2009) and came up 
>>> in the Q&A session after the slides were finished, so you have to 
>>> listen to the long audio of the Q&A at the end of the presentation to 
>>> pick
>> this point up.
>>> 
>>> Most likely Rob will read this at some time and jump in with more 
>>> info on this point.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately there is still no silver bullet.
>>> 
>>> AND, if Ten-Tec were to do this, it would be "outdar" ahead of the 
>>> power curve taking arrows in its back.
>>> Seems there are still an awful lot of people who want to have real 
>>> knobs, especially amongst contesters.
>>> I have yet to see anyone using an SDR (knobless) radio win any major 
>>> contest.
>>> 
>>> My hunch is, at a Multi-Multi station where you have 6 stations 
>>> running 1.5kW at once, you will see a similar drop in BDR3 - again 
>>> due to missing roofing filter, BUT I DO NOT KNOW THIS TO BE FACT.  
>>> JUST A
>> HUNCH.
>>> 
>>> Finally, as for size, if the radio must be larger to fit everything 
>>> in, then make it higher.  My problem is with real estate on the 
>>> desktop.  I had to buy a new desk when I bought the Orion.  I'd have 
>>> to do that again if the O3 were that big again.  (sold the old desk 
>>> when I moved to the states in
>>> 20007)
>>> 
>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl 
>>> Moreschi
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2014 2:24 PM
>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Wish List for ORION-III
>>> 
>>> Rick,
>>> 
>>> This is all too outdated a way to make a transceiver now.  The new 
>>> best way is to create 100% digital data right at the antenna connection.
>>> Then everything is done in software.  The new Flex 6500 does this and 
>>> the results are totally amazing.  No more crystal filters at all and 
>>> the
>>> 2 khz dynamic range is above 100 db.  I believe in a few years all 
>>> good radios will be made this way.
>>> 
>>> Carl Moreschi N4PY
>>> 58 Hogwood Rd
>>> Louisburg, NC 27549
>>> www.n4py.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>> 
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