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Re: [TenTec] Eagle and Zero Beating

To: clayton_n4ev@yahoo.com, tentec@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Eagle and Zero Beating
From: Joe Papworth via TenTec <tentec@contesting.com>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 17:06:25 -0400
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Radio Dudes,
Now that everyone is in agreement (sort of) can  we put this discussion to 
bed?
 
Later, Joe, K8MP
 
 
In a message dated 7/24/2015 3:18:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
tentec@contesting.com writes:

Bob:
I  couldn't agree more with your comments.  I really like the last  
paragraph.Been there and done that.   HI HI
73 Clayton  N4EV

From: Bwana Bob  <wb2vuf@verizon.net>
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment  <tentec@contesting.com> 
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015 8:32  PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Eagle and Zero Beating

100  Hz?  Heck, my vintage Heathkit HW-100 probably drifts that much per  
hour, after warmup, of course.  Too many curmudgeonly purists, too  quick 
to criticize. Your signal isn't chirpy, wide,  making key  clicks or 
backwave (remember backwave?), so you're clean.  Maybe he  has a TX/RX 
offset error of 100 Hz at his end. Or, maybe you're 50 Hz high  and he is 
50 Hz low.  See how silly his argument is.

Now,  there are a couple of technical solutions. I'm not familiar with 
the Eagle  (my newest T-T is a Paragon) but if all oscillators are 
derived from one  master, it's doubtful that there is anything wrong with 
your rig. The  older gear used separate crystals for the BFO/carrier 
oscillators and  these require tweaking sometimes, due to crystal aging. 
A good frequency  counter will set that right.

As for zero beating technique, every rig  design is a little different, 
and few people are blessed with perfect  pitch.  The older Ten Tecs used 
an audio oscillator set to the same  frequency as the BFO offset of 750 
Hz. Push the button and tune the radio  so that the tone of the incoming 
signal is zero beat with the spotting  oscillator. Works best with 
headphones. You can fab up such an audio  oscillator or I'm sure that 
there are kits available. If your ears aren't  good at matching the two 
tones, you can feed the two audio signals into  the X and Y inputs on an 
inexpensive 'scope and watch the Lissajous  pattern and zero beat that 
way:  http://www.jmargolin.com/mtest/LJfigs.htm  There are also some 
simple  zero beating circuits in the literature. You can use a 567 PLL 
chip set to  decode the desired frequency and light an LED when you're 
tuned in.   Some circuits have multiple LEDs like a little bar graph.

There is one  final option that I have used many times on 2 meter 
repeaters, when  dealing with annoying egocentric blowhards. It's called 
"Click".   Just rotate the volume control counterclockwise until an 
audible click is  heard and the annoying person is gone. Life is short. 
Don't give an  annoyance permission to live in your head.

73,

Bob WB2VUF


On  7/23/2015 11:33 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
> Well if that were the  case, how would he know I'm 100 Hz off when he 
can't
> even hear  me?  (hi)
>
> I run contests with 100 Hz filtering, but I  don't run it like that in 
daily
> work.
> Again, the world we live  in allows and has thousands of hams without this
> expensive  technology.
> Everyone is free to do what they like and there is no  right or wrong way,
> but in the case sited, he appeared to be scolding  the QSO partner for not
> being able to adjust his radio properly . . .  probably before he even 
knew
> what kind of radio the other guy  had.
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt am  Main)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec  [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Barry 
N1EU
> Sent:  Thursday, July 23, 2015 5:25 PM
> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec  Equipment
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Eagle and Zero Beating
>
>  Another issue is that it's more likely that guys are running dsp brick  
wall
> narrow filtering today than in years past and they might need you  to be 
on
> their frequency to hear you.
>
> Barry  N1EU
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:14 AM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP  <Rick@dj0ip.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Absolutely,  Al!
>>
>> Just imagine the audacity of some lid running his  store-bought radio,
>> then telling a young lad that has built his  own analog cw transceiver
>> that he is
>> 100 Hz off  frequency!
>>
>> There are still thousands of analog radios  on the air.
>> Especially for a mode like CW which people choose to  operate for the
>> fun factor, you can expect to find lots of analog  radios.  I would
>> expect more  consideration.
>>
>> I have no idea how accurately I zero  beat when running my Scout.  I'm
>> sure I am more accurate with  my Eagle.  But you know what?  I don't
>> care.  The  Scout is simple and fun.
>>
>> What has happened to our  wonderful hobby?
>> Who let the dogs out and the Lids in?   (hi)
>>
>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>> (Nr. Frankfurt am  Main)
>>
>>
>> -----Original  Message-----
>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com]  On Behalf Of Al
>> Gulseth
>> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2015  4:30 PM
>> To: tentec@contesting.com
>> Cc: Rick - DJ0IP /  NJ0IP
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Eagle and Zero  Beating
>>
>> That's where us "stick in the mud" types with  our _old_ TT rigs have
>> an
>> advantage: "VY SRI fer being  off freq OM, rig HR is analog" HI HI!!
>>
>> 73,  Al
>>
>> On Thu July 23 2015 8:56:30 am Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP  wrote:
>>
>>> It's a very sad world indeed if we have to  watch a couple of
>>> software programs just to make a CW  contact!  If that's what one
>>> enjoys doing, then fine, but  having to do that to get zero beat is
> simply BS.
>>>  Adjust your radio properly as I described in my previous post and  if
>>> the other guy doesn't like it, tell him to take a  hike!
>>>
>>> My 2c  worth.
>>>
>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>> (Nr.  Frankfurt am Main)
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