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[TowerTalk] Re:rope in elements

To: <>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Re:rope in elements
From: (Andrew Williamson)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 00:15:45 +0100
In message <>, WD4K
<> writes
>Ok, after listening to this continued cyber attack on F12 from "Andrew"
>every single time the name Force 12 is mentioned, and after he included me
>personally in one of his propaganda-mails, I decided that I can no longer
>keep my comments to myself.

Let's get down to FACTS, not what you think you know.  I'm not attacking
F12, I'm stating FACTS.  It is NOT propaganda (how can facts be
construed as propaganda?).  In the last session about F12 on these
reflectors, Natan asked me to stop slamming F12 so I did.  I told Natan
that I was not slamming F12 but instead stating facts and if there was
ANYTHING that he thought was untrue and unfair I would put a full
retraction on the F12 and TowerTalk reflectors.  Have you seen any
retractions?  No.  Why?  Because everything I have said is FACTUAL and
F12 could not disagree with it.  I'll make the offer publicly this time.
If F12 can prove anything I have said is untrue, let me know and I'll
post a full public retraction on the F12 and TowerTalk reflectors.

>I have 28 Force 12 elements in the air, they have been up at one qth, taken
>down, drilled out, moved, reassembled and up again, some over four years. I
>live on an 800' hilltop-constant wind here every day, gust to 60 are not
>uncommon with higher at times including some strong updrafts. The antennas
>do NOT have any problems, have NOT had any problems and I am in the process
>of buying more F12 product. Am I satisfied--you bet! 

Count yourself as one of the lucky ones then.

>Andrew bought an antenna that was NOT rated for his high wind qth.

WRONG.  I did not buy any antenna from F12.  GI0KOW did and it was the
100mph rated version.  We have never objected to anything regarding the
rated wind speed.  It is other areas that have failed.  I installed the
antenna and have been up and down the tower ever since fixing problems.
I've also installed eight homebrew yagis which have had ZERO failures.
As you would say, 'Go figure'.

> After he
>foolishly tried that, he had a problem. Even with his screw-up, F12 was nice
>enough to offer him FREE replacement parts. 

WRONG.  F12 NEVER offered to replace any DAMAGED parts.  They offered a
few bolts, but the damage was already done and the damaged parts needed
replacing.  They have never to this day offered to replace any damaged

>He chose not to take them. (Go

Northern Ireland is not so backward that we can't find a few bolts over
here.  In fact, by the time F12 had offered the bolts, we already had
bolts of our own installed.  We didn't need pathetic offers, we needed
the damaged parts fixed or replaced.

>He allow his damaged antenna to stay up and made no effort to
>repair or secure it, resulting in more damage. 

WRONG.  Read above.

>F12 has documentation to show
>that they again offered him the parts.  He refused (Go figure again??) 

WRONG.  Read above.  Please quote where F12 offered to replace the
DAMAGED parts.  I can tell you hand on heart that neither myself or
Robert ever saw this offer.

>he decided he wanted a completely new antenna, they said no but they would
>supply the parts--

WRONG again.  We NEVER asked for a new antenna.  NEVER.  We only ever
asked for replacement damaged parts.

>even though they were not at fault. 

WRONG again.  F12 admitted that they had used the wrong rivets which led
to the failure.  As they caused the problem, they should fix the problem
by supplying undamaged parts with the proper rivets.  They still have
not done this.

>SO-why the

Read the previous paragraph.

>F12 won't give him a new antenna as a reward for messing up his
>first one. He is trying to blackmail and scam a FREE antenna!!

WRONG again.  We NEVER asked for a new antenna and we are not asking for
a new antenna now.  We are simply asking for replacement parts to fix a
problem which they admitted that they caused.  Is that too much to ask?

>No company is perfect, but reputation and intregity come from how the issues
>and problems are handled. Fairness requires both sides to be heard prior to
>a "verdict". One sided "testimony" is worthless.

You claim to know the F12 side (which you clearly don't) and I have
stated our side.  As you can see from my statements above (which F12 are
asked to challenge if anything I've said is untrue) that F12 have tried
to wash their hands of a problem which they admit they created.  Any
company that does that in my opinion does not have integrity and does
not deserve a good reputation.  In fact, I'd go as far as to say that
their handling of this has situation been shameful (Natan is not
included in that as he tried his best to get Tom to see sense).

>I would suggest that if Andrew spent as much time rebuilding as he has spent
>bitching, he would be on the air and off this reflector which would be a
>breath of fresh air for all of us. 

That's just the problem.  I've spent plenty of time with this antenna
rebuilding it, in fact, it's been off the tower at least five times to
fix various problems.  This should NOT be necessary.  All the other
homebrew antennas have not been off the tower to fix ANY problem.  Go

>It is hard enough to try to build and run a fine and reputatable company
>without putting up with anyone with a self serving agenda spreading false,
>undocumented and misleading information.

The information I have posted in not false, it is documented and it is
not misleading.  It is FACT.  If F12 can prove me wrong on that a full
retraction to any point raised with be posted.

So, Tommy, next time you THINK you know what you are talking about, try
getting the facts right.  Otherwise, as you Americans would say, butt

Andrew Williamson GI0NWG / AC6WI
Homepage =

One of the ZL9CI gang

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