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[TowerTalk] Breaking up guy wires for nonresonance

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Subject: [TowerTalk] Breaking up guy wires for nonresonance
From: (
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 19:00:16 EDT
In a message dated 6/7/01 12:49:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, writes:
 >>  Further more beams have a vertical directive pattern that points
 >> straight  ahead.  Therefore the pattern component pointing down at
      guy wires is greatly  attenuated and any reflected RF is attenuated 
again back
 >>toward the beam. The higher the gain of the beam the more isolated the 
     is from surrounding objects to the side/back and below.  It just doesn't 
 >> them. 
 >OK so far.
 Actually, NOT ok.
 The typical image we form in our mind of a beams pattern is a FAR FIELD
 pattern, that is to say when we are far enough away from the beam that
 the sum of the radiations from the beam to the observer has
 significantly converged toward a point source in appearance.
 The really destructive interactions are very much in the NEAR FIELD. The
 intuitive pattern image does not apply. In order to figure out what is
 going on, you have to consider such things as guy wires or any close
 metal AS PART OF THE ANTENNA. Rather simple modeling applies well here,
 just make sure that the model contains all the metal. None of the issues
 that make it tricky are in force. Just a bunch of wires interacting with
 each other.
 For each individual wire, the model will figure out the interaction with
 EVERY OTHER wire and then add up the resultant vectors. Most of the
 antenna modelers will either display or report the resultant currents on
 each of the wires in the model. That's when you find out a bunch of
 NON-INTUITIVE aspects about guy wires underneath a beam.
 There is an intuitive way to remember that near field stuff is
 different. Ken's idea above incorrectly depended on all of the
 interactions between driven element, reflectors and directors having
 ALREADY been formed before the guy wire came into play. This obviously
 is true in the far field. HOWEVER, energy from the yagi DE is going to
 reach the guy wire in roughly the same or less time as it does the other
 elements, and CERTAINLY before RE-radiation from the other elements has
 reached the guy wire. The guy wire has PRIMARY radiation from the DE and
 must be considered as part of the antenna.
 Far field considerations are a SUBSET (remnant) of the rules in the near
 field. The published ARRL non-resonant lengths were invented without
 benefit of computer based complete near field analysis, and have
 perpetuated a myth ever since. 
 Guy Olinger
 Apex, NC, USA
Guy:  You have some good points but as I suggested in my post -- take a 3 
element and a 11 element 2M beam connected to a MFJ SWR Anlyizer and hold it 
next (really near field) to a variety of metal objects and you will see the 
"extra isolation" the 11 element beam has on the SWR and therefore the free 
space pattern.  Put in a W8JK in Eznec and see how little affect other 
parasitic elements have on it's pattern compared to regular yagis.  Those 2 
elements are "so tightly coupled to each other'' they see far less of other 
parasitic elements-even in it's major lobes.  It literally doesn't see 
anything above or below it.  What I said was not only "intuitive" but based 
on "actual live beam tests and in Eznec".  I suggest you get yourself a 
Palomar RF Current Meter and run some tests.  I assume you have the MFJ.  
"One test is Worth 1000 Opinions"   (Old K7GCO Axiom)   

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