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Re: [TowerTalk] Antenna Distance From Shack

To: <>, "Pete Smith" <>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Antenna Distance From Shack
From: Robert Chudek - KØRC <>
Reply-to: Robert Chudek - KØRC <>
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:19:43 -0500
List-post: <>
FB! Pete,

Regarding your measurement at 28 MHz idea...

Last winter I wanted a 1/2 wavelength feedline for 1830 KHz. I used my AEA HF 
VIA Analyst to tune the coax. The AEA has a computer interface and allows 
charting of measurements so I could accurately monitor the changes as I snipped 
the cable shorter. This worked great and I nailed it right on my target 

I created an Excel spreadsheet to track the changes as I snipped the coax. You 
can get a copy here:  Grab the file named "160m Coax 
stub tuning"  On 1.8 MHz the 1.01:1 VSWR points are plus/minus 30 KHz (60 KHz 
total) so the null is pretty broad on 160m. 

The spreadsheet will show you the four snips I made and the resulting values 
after each change. BTW, just for reference, removing 1 foot of this particular 
coax (RG/8x no-name brand) moved the resonant point up 7 KHz. YMMV.

I was also under the assumption the feedline would work on even multiples of 
the fundamental frequency. What the meter showed me was the null points skewed 
as the frequency increased. It shifted up several hundred KHz each time the 
frequency doubled. You can imagine in the 10m band it was way off. Well, 
actually, you can see precisely how far off it was in the spreadsheet.

No one ventured to explain the skewing phenomenon I was seeing. What I learned 
from this exercise was to tune the lines at the intended frequency of use.

Regarding the complex impedance measurements and figuring coax loss... Yup, I 
was asleep at the stick again (talking, not doing)... Tom W8JI and your MFJ 
manual are right, of course. I was thinking of my coax tuning setup where I 
used the 50 ohm terminator, but not on the far end! The 50 ohm terminator goes 
on the analyzer end with a T-connector to connect the coax under test, the 
terminator, and the meter. The far end remains open.

73 de Bob - K0RC in MN

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pete Smith" <>
To: "Robert Chudek - KØRC" <>; <>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Antenna Distance From Shack

You're right, Bob, it was a typo.

The idea was that I wanted to have a half-wavelength (or close to it) at the 
lowest frequency of operation, meaning 160 meters.  But I also wanted to 
measure as accurately as possible, which meant measuring at 28 MHz.  I used an 
RG-11 pigtail so that I could get the length within an inch or so of being x 
half-waves at 28 MHz.

As for the loss measurements, W8JI told me that with a composite feedline like 
this, I could not get a usable loss number.  The 259B manual says "be sure the 
distant end... is not terminated in any resistance" and also says that 
non-50-ohm systems cannot be measured.

73, Pete N4ZR

At 01:23 PM 8/18/2006, Robert Chudek - KØRC wrote:
>Hi Pete,
>Can you elaborate on the "1750 Hz (measured at 28 MHz) of 3/4" CATV" you 
>mentioned? First, I assume you meant 1750 KHz, but aside from that, I'm not 
>following what you mean.
>Also, measuring loss at the shack with the MFJ-259B... Unless you install a 
>non-resonant 50 ohm terminator at the opposite end, your readings in the shack 
>will continue to 'vary widely' (although maybe not as "widely"). If you 
>installed a 50 ohm load on one port of a remote antenna switch that would 
>accomplish the task, but I'm thinking this is not what you had in mind 
>regarding measuring loss.
>73 de Bob - KØRC in MN
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:13:14 -0400
>From: Pete Smith <>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Antenna Distance From Shack
>Message-ID: <>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Frank and Bill make good points.  For the last 10 years, I have been using 
>3/4" CATV for most of the 190-foot run from my house to my antennas.  To be 
>specific, I use RG-213 up the tower and across the roof of my house to my 
>2nd-floor shack, but use multiples of a half-wave at 1750 Hz (measured at 28 
>MHz) of 3/4" CATV in between. 
>-- some stuff snipped here --
>I want to be able to monitor loss from the shack, something that my composite 
>feedline doesn't seem to let me do (the indicated loss on my MFJ-259B varies 
>widely with frequency).
>-- trailing text snipped  here --

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