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[Amps] plate dissipation and duty factor

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: [Amps] plate dissipation and duty factor
From: "John Lyles" <jtml@losalamos.com>
Reply-to: jtml@vla.com
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:55:49 -0700
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
You are correct that RTTY is basically 100% on like FM, at least during a burst 
of transmission. So this is limited by the average plate dissipation of the 
tube, not to exceed XXX watts or KW. Thermally, a few seconds on is like CW as 
far as the tube anode structure is concerned. 

For pulsed ratings, the average dissipation limit is the same. If you are on 
10% of the time, then the peak power may go up to the limits of the cathode 
emission current of the tube in some cases, however, the plate dissipation 
still sets the limit for the thermal loading on the anode. If you run 10 X the 
CW power level and are on 10% of the time, its the same dissipation as CW. You 
cannot cheat and get more dissipation on an average than the tube is capable 
of. You can get high peak dissipation, but that really isn't the definition of 
dissipation. Its an average thing. There is a limit to how long you can leave 
the pulse on, however, before the tube makers say no. In other words, you 
cannot run, like 1 second on at 10 X the average dissipation, then wait 10 
seconds and do it again, and expect long life. Fusion RF systems run a blast of 
RF for 20-100 seconds, and they are considered CW. Particle accelerators like 
where I work run 10% DF, so we can crank up the peak to quite h
 igh. We
have 250 kW of plate dissipation in triodes, and on a peak basis its like 2.5 
MW. But thermally it is only 250 kW of power into the copper. The pulses are 
short. 
Oxide cathode and thoriated tungsten tubes have their favored regimes with 
respect to peak cathode emission, which is often another unmentioned limit of a 
tube. 

As for SSB, I defer to those who practice making SSB amplifiers. 

73
John 
K5PRO

> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:51:34 -0500
> From: Jeff Blaine <keepwalking188@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [Amps] What is the true and actual meaning of a plate
>       dissipation     limit?
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> Wanted:  an understanding of the actual and true meaning of the plate 
> disipation limits with respect to duty cycle.
> 
> I may have missed it, but it seems the answer is hiding at least from me.
> 
> All our tubes have plate dis limits associated with them.  Sometimes 
> there is an associated cooling requirement with it as a footnote, but 
> beyond that, not much else is said.
> 
> Say a guy loves SSB (low duty cycle) and RTTY (100% duty cycle).  The 
> rule of thumb in some cases is to run the RTTY mode at 1/2 the typical 
> power of SSB.  But this is often stated without explaining why the RTTY 
> power level specified as 1/2 is the right level from a specification or 
> design standpoint. 
> 
> I realize that in the greater scheme, there are a host of components to 
> consider when talking about an amp as a whole.  But here i am addressing 
> the tube only as an isolated case.
> 
> Eimac's C&F does not mention RTTY that I recll, but they do talk a lot 
> about commercial 24/7 FM service - and that's a 100% non-stop mode; 
> equivalent to RTTY.  They suggest in the C&F documents that the tube 
> will run up to the rated plate dis in CCS.  OK.  Maybe the 
> interpretation is that the Pd-max is a hard limit?  Valid for all time 
> and all cases. 
> 
> And then there are the pulse applications that come along and spoil the 
> CCS argument.  Many tubes have a pulse rating - or in the case of many 
> of the Russian tubes - a pulse rating spec set only without CCS duty 
> being adequately specified. 
> 
> In these pulse duty cases, the time averaged plate dis is below the 
> published limit, I'm sure.  But for the pulse duration, the Pd is going 
> to be exceeded by a huge margin. 
> 
> That means, that in some lower duty cycle circumstances, the assumed CCS 
> Pd can be safely exceeded.
> 
> However I cannot find an explanation that ties the duty cycle to the 
> plate dissipation.  Reconciling the two data points.  Either on a 
> derating or pulse basis - even as a rule-of-thumb kind of factor. 
> 
> The usual sources are not clear on the point.  The Eimac literature does 
> not come out and say it clearly.  Bill Orr loves heavy metal for 
> transformers - but for SSB duty, has no problems exceeding the CCS specs 
> on many components including tubes.  And nothing on the net that I've 
> seen links a position and some data or logic into something that is more 
> substantial that would pull it out of the opinion and into the 
> engineering basis category.
> 
> Hoping that one of you guys working in the industry - or having 
> encountered this question before - may have the magic answer that hooks 
> the plate dis and duty cycle together...
> 
> 73/jeff/ac0c

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