I recall conversations from Dayton with hams who had set up exhibits and/or
stations to demonstrate Ham Radio at fairs, and similar events, and one OM
commented that one thing that had done that really did get them to stay
there for a couple extra minutes, in a queue, was to have a CW key and tone
and let them learn to send their own name in morse code.
73
Barry, W5GN, EI/W5GN
-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Sean
Waite
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:05 PM
To: Matt NQ6N <matt@nq6n.com>
Cc: k9yc@arrl.net; Art Peters <k0acp@k0acp.com>; cq-contest
<cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Interesting Youth In Ham Radio (was Digest)
Hi Matt,
I'll agree that MOST hams are friendly and really want to get newcomers into
the hobby. I'm a moderator of the amateur radio group over on reddit.
Unfortunately, it isn't terribly uncommon to hear of new hams trying to make
their first contacts on a repeater and get driven off by other people on the
repeater or just blatantly ignored. There's also occasional stories of new hams
not being welcomed in club meetings when they show up to check out what's going
on. I suspect we hear a lot more of these tales because of the medium, reddit
attracts a lot of younger people. It also seems like many of these grumps are
FM VHF only and mainly on repeaters and stick to their own circles. I've also
heard of newbies being blasted when calling CQ on a repeater - yeah, it's
considered incorrect, but a gentle correction to someone who is just trying to
do the right thing is more appropriate.
There's also the cesspool that are some of the other amateur radio forums out
there where people complain a lot about these no-code-lids ruining the hobby.
In case anyone got that impression from one of my previous emails - I don't
think every older ham is a grump, or even the majority. I know a ton of older
hams that are incredibly helpful and will bend over backwards to work with you
and make sure you're in a good place. I'll also point out that there's some
problems in the younger crowd - I've had to wield my banhammer on occasion on
reddit. There is just a larger population of older hams than younger, so by
percentage overall there are more bad eggs in the older crew. It's a matter of
perception, I suppose.
One thing we should keep in mind is the (oh man, here goes the can of
worms) raging after every contest about the digital modes. We should try and
get more people involved in SSB, CW or even RTTY...but the JT modes are here to
stay and a lot of younger hams really enjoy using them. Attacking them for
running JT65 or FT8 is divisive and not really conducive to getting people to
stay with the hobby. I regret writing this already.
I wish some of the maker spaces around me had ham equipment - that's another
good place! I know my first encounter with amateur radio was doing the radio
merit badge with the Boy Scouts (Camp Ockanickon - I think we were K3BSA), and
getting more kids exposed in the BSA or GSA would be another boost. My kid
isn't old enough for scouting yet, and my time is crazy busy right now with a
master's program and work and family, but should he get involved in the scouts
I know I'll be more than willing to work that badge with the troop.
Your point about being apartment restricted is a good one. I'm amazed at how
many of the people I work with (I work at a software company) are living with
roommates in apartments. Many under-30 year olds can't afford a house, so they
are restricted to whatever they can stick on a balcony or get out in the field.
This another hard kick in the head for getting people active on HF. Finding
interesting things for a ham to do when they are stuck in an apartment or condo
will go far.
My comments about HAB, sat work and similar are more about finding "gateway
drugs" into the hobby. Something you can hold up and say "look at this, it's
cool" and the layman will agree.
Another thing I thought of - it's entertaining to see all of the reactions we
get when the VHF rover parks in an area with some foot traffic. Plenty of
opportunities for evangelism, once you get past all of the comments about
phoning home. I doubt we have much retention on that interest, but at least
it's a little publicity.
73,
Sean WA1TE
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 7:09 PM Matt NQ6N <matt@nq6n.com> wrote:
> Art,
>
> Great points. I think both are very important and very pleased to hear
> that you are able to offer both in the high school club you are involved with.
> I think having decent test equipment available can make a lot of the
> theory much more hands-on. The Elmers may not have had a spectrum
> analyzer or VNA handy to measure some of the simple circuits, but I
> don't think there's anything lost to a new learner by having access to
> tools like these when measuring certain kinds of circuits, even if the
> same can be done with an oscilloscope and a bit of math.
>
> Reading Sean's comment it's interesting to see all of those areas
> mentioned (ballooning, satellite work, QRP portable, etc.). I think
> many of the more experienced hams have done one or more of those
> things, but they are not necessarily the most popular on-air
> activities today. They are all certainly great things for a high
> school or college club to help teach/facilitate.
>
> One thing that I would disagree with Sean and Ria on is that I have
> not encountered any discouragement or bad manners whatsoever from older hams.
> Since the novice class I took back in 1989, many hams have provided
> mentorship and Elmering, invited me to participate in multi-ops, on
> DXpeditions, use their stations for single op efforts, plus an
> incredible amount of coaching on operating technique and contesting strategy.
>
> What I'm trying to express is that I really don't know where the
> perception of a "good old boys club" comes from. Most hams I know are
> thrilled to invite new/interested people into their shacks and give
> demonstrations, offer advice, loan out some gear, etc.
>
> While I'm not a rag chewer, every now and then I operate SSB and have
> a rag chew, usually begun in an attempt to test my audio, that turns
> into an interesting chat.
>
> There was a period of years when I was inactive due to apartment
> restrictions and the lack of an active college club during the time I
> was in college -- it was kicked out of its location to make room for
> the university's television station and did not find a new home for
> quite some time. But now we have maker spaces all over the place, many
> of which have a small ham station. I have a bunch of gear that I plan to
> donate to the
> next maker space I join. At the last one I joined in Manhattan NY, there
> was a small station that got occasional digital use and had fairly
> measly antennas, but it was still a station and likely still
> introduced some people to the hobby who would not have otherwise known about
> it.
>
> I've found contesters to be among the most young-at-heart people I've
> ever met. I've been shocked a few times to discover that a contester
> I had operated with was 10+ years older than I'd realized. Contesting
> truly may be the fountain of youth. Maybe it's the combination of a
> spirit that does not decline with age and the strategic insight that
> only gets stronger with experience.
>
> This is an interesting topic and I'm glad it's something that we
> discuss now and then on cq-contest.
>
> 73,
> Matt NQ6N
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Art Peters <k0acp@k0acp.com> wrote:
>
> > Matt,
> >
> > Great points, at our high school club, there is incredible interest
> > in making, but 90% focuses around PICs, Arduino’s, & Raspberry Pi’s
> > mostly around High Altitude Balloon, HAB, payloads. Now in our 4th
> > year, we
> have
> > seen some uptick in interest of operating, and did successful SCR
> > participation and have 3 or 4 students (out of 20) to get on HF and
> > make their first Q — it is magic to watch their face light up! But
> > you are definitely right on, they are interested in integrated
> > stations
> (computer &
> > radio) with automation coming quickly as the world that they are
> > used to, this is a bit of a challenge for some of our mentors, who
> > want to start from the theory of discrete components and work toward
> > crystal radios,
> then
> > onto discrete components, then ...
> >
> > I believe that both approaches will appeal to different
> > constituencies; however, the former approach of starting with the
> > integrated station and then dealing into the theory, seems to be
> > more effective on a broader
> base.
> >
> > My take away is that there is no one single bullet and that we will
> > need multiple approaches; however, from my observation, if not a
> > statistically significant sample, is that this approach in getting
> > them online then
> work
> > to fill out operational and theoretical competence has offered an
> > appeal
> to
> > a broader set of students that we have the privilege to interact and
> offer
> > a road to hamdom....
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Art / K0ACP
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > > On Nov 13, 2017, at 10:30 PM, Matt NQ6N <matt@nq6n.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jim has been a great source of mentor-ship for hams of all ages
> > > through
> > is
> > > comments on various reflectors and through his many articles and
> > > presentation decks that he's shared. As a relatively young ham
> > > (41
> years
> > > young) I'll chime in a few thoughts:
> > >
> > > In much the same way that radio transmissions are magic to many of
> > > us,
> I
> > > think that the internet has been similarly magic for a lot of
> > > young techies. The idea of getting an app accepted into the app
> > > store is not
> > just
> > > a dream to modern youngsters, it's a reality and it is far more
> > > common
> > than
> > > one would expect. I think the intrigue of it is very similar to
> > > that
> of
> > > radio -- one's effort can be magnified by being suddenly
> > > accessible to people all over the world.
> > >
> > > Imagine being a kid today. You can spend a weekend making an app
> > > that
> all
> > > your friends will think is cool, or you can spend the weekend with
> > amateur
> > > radio. The difference is not in the kids, it's simply that there
> > > are a
> > lot
> > > of other options that now compete with amateur radio for attention
> > > and provide similar "magic" for the technically inclined
> > > individual. Also, compared to when I was a kid, video games today
> > > are much more
> challenging
> > > and more social than they once were. There are apparently big
> > communities
> > > that revolve around tactical voice chat for video game missions.
> > >
> > > I recall when studying for my novice how excited I was about
> > > showing
> off
> > my
> > > forthcoming ability to talk to others across the country or world
> > > for
> no
> > > fee. This is no longer something that is perceived as scarce
> > > (because
> of
> > > Skype, etc.), even though doing it with radios or antennas one has
> > > personally built/assembled is quite different from downloading a
> program.
> > >
> > > What makes me optimistic is that I think that the internet is
> > > becoming
> > more
> > > and more obviously a vehicle to deliver ads and commercials into
> > > our brains, and many of the seemingly creative personas and
> > > statements of individuality that made the early internet so
> > > intriguing are becoming tired, repetitive, and indistinguishable
> > > from any other form of advertising. Cynicism about the internet
> > > is on the rise among young people, particularly cynicism about
> > > being the "product" that is being
> > sold
> > > to advertisers.
> > >
> > > A few evenings ago I was riding in an Uber cab with a former
> > > coworker
> who
> > > had come to town. We'd just had dinner during which I'd mentioned
> > > my long-time interest in amateur radio. He'd apparently not
> > > realized I
> was
> > a
> > > ham but had a lot of awareness of ham radio but wasn't sure how it
> > > was current/relevant. I went into a 10 minute explanation of all
> > > the ways,
> > and
> > > by the time the ride was over the (millennial) Uber driver was
> extremely
> > > fascinated and totally blown away by the stuff I was describing.
> > > I
> would
> > > not be surprised if the driver winds up becoming a ham.
> > >
> > > Another person (likely in his early 30s) fairly recently
> > > interrupted me while I was reading over some of the WSJT-X source
> > > code and asked what
> I
> > > was working on. I went on to explain the JT modes and how they
> > > relate
> to
> > > some of the basic information theory that launched the computer
> > revolution.
> > > The person was totally shocked and really did not believe that the
> > > low power worldwide transmissions I was describing were possible.
> > > I'm
> > thinking
> > > that I'll have to start carrying my KX2 with me for impromptu
> > > demos
> when
> > > this sort of thing occurs.
> > >
> > > A few years ago I attended the GNURadio Conference. There were
> attendees
> > of
> > > all ages, including some hams. Many of the non-hams I spoke with
> > > had
> > very
> > > little exposure to HF, propagation, etc. The wireless industry
> dominates
> > > the interest in SDR for recent college grads because it dominates
> hiring.
> > > Surely the same was true years ago when HF communications were
> > > more directly relevant to national defense, etc.
> > >
> > > But if the sales pitch for amateur radio is "hey look how
> > > fascinating ionospheric HF propagation is compared to big budget
> > > VHF/UHF line of
> > sight
> > > communications" I think it's a very easy pitch to make.
> > >
> > > I think that we as amateurs need to realize that buying an old HF
> > > rig
> on
> > > eBay will cost $200 to $500 while building an app is free and
> publishing
> > to
> > > the Apple app store is only $99. For the young person who has
> > > $100 and
> > is
> > > looking to invest in something with a high probability of fun, how
> > > does amateur radio stack up? How much fun would it be for any of
> > > us with a
> > $100
> > > station budget? I think the payout for amateur radio is very
> > > high, but
> > my
> > > point is that for the new, not-yet-licensed person with technical
> > > interests, there are a lot of things to spend one's time on (such
> > > as building apps) that can also result in landing a six-figure job
> > > after a
> > few
> > > years of tinkering. The economics of this do not favor amateur
> > > radio,
> as
> > > the learning curve and level of technical sophistication needed to
> > launch a
> > > career in RF engineering requires a much greater level of skill
> > > and accomplishment to achieve a similar financial outcome.
> > >
> > > I think the solution is for the amateur radio community to make
> > > sure
> that
> > > as many colleges and universities )and high schools) as possible
> > > have a well-funded station with state of the art gear, antennas,
> > > test
> equipment,
> > > etc. The shack should be something that offers "toys" that rival
> > > the
> fun
> > > to be had with off-the-shelf video games and app development
> > environments.
> > > I think that if we do this and realize that there is real
> > > competition
> do
> > > decide what the most tech-savvy youth will do for fun, we will have a
> > > chance at attracting those people into the hobby. The cost of video
> > games
> > > is very high when you think about hours wasted learning hand-eye
> > > coordination, etc., but most young people will not amortize that
> > > cost appropriately and will balk at the upfront price tag of
> > > proper HF equipment.
> > >
> > > 73 and thanks for the great discussion. Anyone wishing to donate
> > > to
> the
> > U
> > > of Chicago or U of Michigan club stations feel free to contact me,
> > > and
> I
> > > can put you in touch with the proper person to talk to.
> > >
> > > Matt NQ6N
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Jim Brown
> > > <k9yc@audiosystemsgroup.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>> On 11/13/2017 11:51 AM, Ria Jairam wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Question - do you actually interact with younger people? Or do
> > >>> you simply look down on them?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> You obviously didn't read my email.
> > >>
> > >> 73, Jim
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
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