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Re: Topband: electrical wavelength

To: <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: electrical wavelength
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Reply-to: Tom W8JI <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:44:15 -0400
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
On 9/10/2012 9:23 AM, Jim Hoge wrote:
Let's do some quick math.... 234/1.82=128.57 gives us the length in feet of a quarter wave at 1.820 mHz. Multiply that by a velocity factor ( say 85% for LMR-400) and you get a length of 109.29 feet.


I think the big error, using 234 instead of ~246, is pretty important to everyone.

That math is a bit too simple, because Vf VARIES as function of frequency. The PUBLISHED Vf is for VHF, but the Vf is a few percent lower at 2 MHz. This happens with ALL transmission lines, and is predicted by Maxwell's Equations. For more on this, including measured data for coax similar to LMR400, see http://audiosystemsgroup.com/Coax-Stubs.pdf

I firmly do not believe that is true.

Velocity factor in cable is the square root of the inverse of dielectric constant. There is no frequency sensitivity in the equation. The dielectric constant of polyethylene varies from 2.26 at 60Hz to 2.26 at 1 GHz.

sqrt of 2.26 is .66519

I just checked a CommScope F6 cable, the error from 5 MHz to 35 MHz is only 0.1%
That is well within instrument and foam/air consistency errors.

As a matter of fact it appears the variation I see has clear indications of analyzer or foam density tolerances, since it wobbles around 0.25% delta.

I tested cables for some manufacturers, and one of the ways I would look for bad runs was a large delta in the harmonic null positions. I can't recall any good cables changing 3% over HF to lower VHF.

One thing that causes a change in Vf is the same thing that causes an antenna's harmonics to not fall evenly with frequency. This is end-effect. An evenly cut cable end has electric field fringing, and that makes the last 1/4 wave section look longer than internal sections.


Bottom line -- you MUST measure the coax AT THE OPERATING FREQUENCY to hit an exact half wave. An easy way to do this is with an analyzer like the MFJ259, which drives the line with a small manually tuned signal generator, short the far end, and tune the generator until you see the sharp null of the short.

The problem with doing things like this are even harmonic levels, which even when very low can skew results slightly. Plus we have connector lengths and such.

In Ham use, people do not need to get all over the top. It is far more important to use the right formula than to worry about a few percent wobble. I can't think of any systems we have that are so critical.

73 Tom
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