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: Re: [AMPS] I.C.E. filters - reply to Carl

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Subject: : Re: [AMPS] I.C.E. filters - reply to Carl
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Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:52:04 -0500

On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:00:28 -0800 (marv gonsior)
>--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
>From: "Phil T. (VE3OZZ)" <>
>Subject: Re: [AMPS] I.C.E. filters - reply to Carl
To: <>
>Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:45:51
>Message-ID: <>
>>>the filters. Marv sited high insertion loss at 29 MHZ amongst other 
>>Hmmmm.  I mentioned experiences that Marv then commented on, guess 
>>forgot me...
>> >Let me repeat that after a very early problem I have been 100% 
>>ICE products 
>>73  Carl  KM1H
>I think you're right Carl.  I think I got 7 e-mails about ICE 
>Rather than recite all comments in those e-mails, I chose to just
>"summarise" the general gist of them in this most recent post. Marv 
>and I
>were back and forth a few times about this subject 'off-line',  so 
>comments ended-up sticking with me.   Now I must admit that I did 
>forget that you had stated that you were happy with more recent ICE
>apologies.  I'm perhaps a good example of what happens when an issue 
>like this comes up - after some time passes, I remember all the 
>quite well.
>Hello All,
>Since my comments to Phil were being utilized here, in fairness to 
>I.C.E., the FULL extent of them should be provided to all concerned. 
>told Phil that I was NOT familiar with the quality of I.C.E.'s CURRENT 
>products but that I did have reservations from my earlier 
>and measurements.
>My appraisal of their filters was based on measurements that were made 
>by three different test setups; mine,  another by W6GNX, and with both 
>of us using HP141T/8443 Spectrum Analyzers/Tracking Generators.  This 
>was followed, most significantly, by those made by an HP Tech Rep who 
>demonstrated his measurments on a number of different LPFs to a 
>gathering in 1992.  He was using their finest HP Network 
>Analyzer/plotter. With that system, he demonstrated that the I.C.E. 
>LPF and BP filters did not meet their specs.  However, one must 
>remember that this was a relatively small sample and that I.C.E. 
>apparently had changed their filter design in the early days of their 
>operation.  Since their nomenclature did not
>change, it would be difficult to determine which version was under 
>I have two reservations..........based on what I last saw.  One, was 
>the risk of cold flow in the Teflon capacitors causing drift plus 
>possible arcing. Secondly, is the possible lowered Q in the filter 
>elements due to
>the relatively small shielding enclosures in which they are housed.
>It is rewarding to learn that their policies regarding product 
>are  so exceptionaly good as this is often not the case elsewhere.  
>Since I believe that there are many of us here, looking for a top 
>notch LPF, it would be a great service to all concerned if I.C.E. 
>would post their current, detailed specs including their Swept 
>Frequency response and
>Return Loss measurements.
>Marv, W6FR

Good post Marv. I should dig my ICE's from behind the amps and bring them
to work where I sit in front of the latest HP toys. 
In fact if anyone wants a report and hard copy plot on a filter, send it
on to me and I'll get it returned within 2-3 working days.
I can test just about anything in the 10MHz to 50GHz range. For a small
(a case of Michelob Light !) I can also run over any temperature from
-125 to +125C.
After the normal work hours stop at 11PM the personal projects from
several of us techs start; I work 2nd shift which is totally laid back
and the Prez knows it ( we also beat 1st shift in production) .  A few
good Blues CD's cranked up and the fun begins!

73  Carl  KM1H

>The ICE units appear to be robust well made units, and they are a
>reasonable price. It would be a shame to overlook using a product 
>of negative impressions that aren't fully justified.
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