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[Amps] Re: Voodoo "EMF' forces from grid current pulses

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [Amps] Re: Voodoo "EMF' forces from grid current pulses
From: 2 at vc.net (2)
Date: Tue Feb 4 07:12:13 2003

>I strongly challenge this assertion. I know of no mechanism within the realm 
>of classical EM field theory to account for this. I am assuming you are 
>referring to the normal force that would accompany two current-carrying 
>conductors which are in parallel proximity to each other.
>
Have you ever been to a welding shop and observed what happens to 
arc-welder cables when an arc is struck?  I have and I saw the cables 
jump about on the floor.

>To illustrate the folly here, try the following numbers, which are based 
>upon 
>basic physics (  see any good Intro E&M book - Kraus&Carver e.g.) I 
>calculated the force (which itself is based upon the  Lorenz force which 
>exists between a moving electron (a 'current') and a current carrying 
>conductor nearby.)
>
> I assumed 2 wires each 1" long and separated by 1mm, which I believe would 
>be representative of the grid-cathode geometry in a large transmitting tube. 
>With a current of 10 Amperes in each wire (which would no-doubt vaporize any 
>grid wire I ever saw) 

At its maximum ratings of 4000VDC and 250MHz, the grid in an 8877 quite 
happily carries more than 42A-rms.  Since there are 108 gold-plated 
rectangular bars in the grid to share the current burden, under 0.4A 
flows in each grid bar - so there is no heat problem.  note -- The AC 
grid current results from the grid-anode C of 10pF and a potential of c. 
2650V-rms at the anode.  However, AC grid-current does not exert a net 
force on the grid.

>the attractive force between the two wires is a 
>whopping .0005N (multiply X ,22 for pounds). I don't think that is going to 
>be bending any wires. And that was assuming the ridiculous value of 10A. for 
>the current pulse, which I am assuming is quais-DC. 

Yes

>If it is an AC field, 
>especially at RF, the force would also oscillate with no net (average) 
>force. 
>
Agreed

>So if you want us the believe that the voodoo parasitics 

"Voodoo parasitics" is a term brandished by W8JI.  Do you perhaps know 
him?

>cause a current 
>flow which generates a strong enough lateral force to damage the wires, 

The grid wires in all of the shorted 3-500Z and 3-400Z tubes that I have 
autopsied appear to be straight.  I have never seen a bent grid.  The 
bent element is the thoriated-tungsten filament helix.  

>you will have to come up with another mechanism, one that can generate some 
REAL 
>force.
>
There is no doubt that real force did the bending because real force is 
required to bend a bent filament straight.  It typically takes 11-G for 
c. 40-seconds, with the filament operating at c. 5.6V, to straighten the 
filament.  
-  Eric --  How do you explain:
1.  the grid-filament short often seen in 3-500Zs often follows a 
big-bang?  
2.   the simultaneous burnout of a grid choke made from 28ga Cu wire?

-  R. L. Measures, a.k.a. Rich..., 805.386.3734, AG6K, 
www.vcnet.com/measures.  
end

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