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Re: [Amps] SB-220 bias question

To: <gudguyham@aol.com>, <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] SB-220 bias question
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@subich.com>
Reply-to: lists@subich.com
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:02:32 -0400
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
> I think you missed the point I was making.

No, I didn't miss the point.  Running an amplifier in 
a mis-tuned condition (tune for 1500 W Output and drive 
to 800 W Out) is hazardous and inefficient.  If you 
tune the amplifier for 800 W at the higher plate voltage 
the Q of the pi network soars resulting in all kinds of 
problems.  

Instead, if you reduce the plate voltage 30% - 40%, 
leave the bias up so the tube is running with no idle 
current (class B), and dive it to the correct half 
power (700-800 W out) level, the PLI will be correct 
for the design of the pi network.  Circulating current 
will be reduced and efficiency will increase. 




> -----Original Message-----
> From: gudguyham@aol.com [mailto:gudguyham@aol.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 12:10 PM
> To: lists@subich.com; amps@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] SB-220 bias question
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  The SB-220 will not survive RTTY operation in "full smoke" 
> 
> @@@@@ Agreed, for sure, but the AAL-80, AL-82 et al. do not 
> change the plate voltage on any mode.  The operator is told 
> to adjust power output according to the mode.  I NEVER said 
> to rum the SB-220 at full smoke on RTTY.  My whole point is 
> to run the tubes at higher plate voltage with less plarte and 
> grid current for the same power output.  Naturally on must be 
> prudent with thr SB-220 as with the AL-80/ Al-82 et al.  I 
> think you missed the point I was making. Lou
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Subich, W4TV <lists@subich.com>
> To: gudguyham@aol.com; km1h@jeremy.mv.com; amps@contesting.com
> Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2009 11:33 am
> Subject: Re: [Amps] SB-220 bias question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > So in other words it's not a technical issue so much as it is
> > a "idiot proof" fail safe measure?
> 
> No.  The SB-220 will not survive RTTY operation in "full smoke" 
> mode.  100% duty cycle at 1500 W output will cook both the 
> transformer and the output.  Running at lower power keeps the 
> transformer and pi-network within ratings and doing so at the 
> lower voltage setting keeps correct plate load impedance.  
> 
> Remember, the SB-220 was designed for 1 KW DC (average) input 
> power.  That it will handle 1500 W PEP output with reasonable 
> duty cycles is a testament to the care that went into the design. 
> Still, it is no Alpha or Henry and will self destruct if pushed 
> to 1500 W CW "brick on the key" output (approximately 2500 W DC 
> input). 
> 
> 73, 
> 
>    ... Joe, W4TV 
>  
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: amps-bounces@contesting.com
> > [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of gudguyham@aol.com
> > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:35 AM
> > To: km1h@jeremy.mv.com; amps@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [Amps] SB-220 bias question
> > 
> > 
> > So in other words it's not a technical issue so much as it is
> > a "idiot proof" fail safe measure?
> > 
> > Many operate the SB-220 on RTTY and digi modes where the CW
> > position is a key to transformer survivability.? ? The same 
> > for 12/17M where the tank circuits are far from optimum and 
> > bandswitch arcing can occur at 1200W.? ? Some owners are a 
> > bit slow in tuning up and the CW position reduces the plates 
> > from brilliant orange to a darker version.? ? Carl? KM1H?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carl <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
> > To: Gudguyham@aol.com; amps@contesting.com
> > Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2009 9:00 am
> > Subject: Re: [Amps] SB-220 bias question
> > 
> > 
> > Many operate the SB-220 on RTTY and digi modes where the CW
> > position is a key to transformer survivability.? ? The same 
> > for 12/17M where the tank circuits are far from optimum and 
> > bandswitch arcing can occur at 1200W.? ? Some owners are a 
> > bit slow in tuning up and the CW position reduces the plates 
> > from brilliant orange to a darker version.? ? Carl? KM1H? ? ?
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gudguyham@aol.com>?
> > To: <amps@contesting.com>?
> > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:09 AM?
> > Subject: [Amps] SB-220 bias question?
> > ?
> > > It was always my understanding with the SB-220 and other 
> older amps
> > > that? the reason for lowering the plate voltage on the 3-500's or 
> > > whatever tube,? was to comply with FCC regulations. Years 
> > ago the rule
> > > was 1KW DC input > CW? and 2KW PEP input SSB hence the
> > change in plate
> > > voltage. Now that this > rule? has changed I was 
> thinking. It is my
> > > observation that the 3-500 tube? performs much better 
> with 3000 or 
> > > more plate voltage, tube makes nice > power? with lower 
> > grid current
> > > for the same power at a lower plate voltage. > Hence,? my idea.? I
> > > routinely use 7 1N5408 reversed diodes to replace blown zeners.? 
> > > Expanding on that idea I was thinking of removing the power 
> > > transformer > primary? windings from the CW/SSB switch and wire 
> > > nutting the wires together that? produce the higher plate 
> voltage, 
> > > then making up a small perf board with? about (have to 
> > experiment) 11
> > > diodes and using the CW/SSB switch to short > out 4? of the
> > diodes on
> > > CW to lower the idle current and have normal SSB idle? 
> current when
> > > switched to SSB. That has been the modern day approach to > 
> > this? on
> > > the newer amps since the FCC ruling has changed. Many 
> hams I know >
> > > went? to running CW with an SB-220 and other older amps 
> in the SSB 
> > > mode anyway.? Thoughts? 73 lou? 
> > > _______________________________________________?
> > > Amps mailing list?
> > > Amps@contesting.com?
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps ?
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amps mailing list
> > Amps@contesting.com 
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> 
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