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[Amps] PA efficiency

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [Amps] PA efficiency
From: "Jim Thomson" <jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 02:36:43 -0700
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
From: David Kirkby <drkirkby@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] PA efficiency
To: "Carey Lockhart, KC5GTT" <kc5gtt@gmail.com>
Cc: amps@contesting.com
Message-ID: <BANLkTik7gt5eZmp_R9Pp3DiTQveq8FrCbg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 18 May 2011 13:20, Carey Lockhart, KC5GTT <kc5gtt@gmail.com> wrote:
> i was affraid of that. 58.3%. my gs31 2 meter amplifier i use for a standby
> isnt much more efficent than my gs-35 that just croaked. i have been using
> these yu1aw designs. have yet to get the rated operating paramters listed. i
> dont even have a clue where to start. i am wondering if there is a more
> proven design better suited to my skill level. any suggestions?
>
> Carey, kc5gtt

It's totally pointless stating the efficiency to 3 significant figures
(58.3%). Whilst if you use a DVM you can read DC voltages and currents
to well under 1%, you wont be able to measure the RF power to anything
like that accuracy. So your efficiency is probably somewhere between
48% and 68%. So worrying about the odd 1 percent is totally pointless
unless you use professional, laboratory quality test equipment to
measure the RF power.

In fact, I doubt your high voltage probe is sufficiently to measure
the voltage to better than 1%.

Dave

##  I'm sure it's  very easy to calculate eff a lot better than the..."48% - 
68%"
range you mentioned.  If you were really adamant about it, you could use a 
calibrated fluke or hp dvm... and measure the loaded B+  across  each 
electrolytic
in any HV supply.  And ditto with measuring plate current.. [ just insert the 
dvm in series
with existing plate current meter]. 

##  as for the wattmeter  end of it... the bird is spec'd  at  +/- 5%  of full 
scale.....
anywhere on the scale.   Which implies that unless the meter is nailerd right 
to the
top end... you won't get  +/- 5 %.     IE:  try using a 5 kw slug  to meausre a 
625 w 
signal from an hf amp.   It reads 700 w.   Switch to a 2500 w  slug... and it 
now reads
675 w.   Switch to 1 kw slug..and it now reads just 625 w.   Which one do you 
think
is the most accurate ?   A 1 kw slug implies +/- 5%  of 1 kw =  50 watts. 

##  So if the wattmeter with the 1 kw slug is used to measure a 100 w  xcvr, the
meter could read  say 100w.  Now the real power could be 150w..and the meter is
reading 50 w low.   or the real power could be just 50w... and the meter  is 
reading 50w
high.  That's a huge margin of error..and obviously way more than  +/-5%.   
Point is..if
the bird meter isn't in the top  end of it's scale... [ ie: use the smallest 
slug possible]....
then your readings  will be  out to lunch. 

##  A few yrs back... I ordered up several NEW  2.5 kw HF slugs  from Coaxial 
Dynamics.
I shoveled them into the CD 83 wattmeter.. hot.. with amp running a cxr..... 
and resulting
readings  were close... but still  all over the map..with some slugs high..and 
some low. 
Which one is correct... who knows?     Put a heat gun or hair dryer  near a 
bird slug..and you
can watch the readings  change 10%  in front of your eyes.  Take a reading when 
room temp
in the shack is cold..like  60 deg F..then do it again  when shack temp is 85 
deg F.... and you
will be in for an eye opener.   Same deal in a mobile set up..in summer time... 
with car windows 
rolled up..and sitting in the hot sun. 

## I gave up on the bird/cd meter's..and now use the array solution's  
'power-master' wattmeter.
It's not affected by heat, and if you  don't like the calibration, you can 
change it in software....in
+/-  1%  increments..from   a  max of  +15%.....down to a low of -15%.    They 
calibrate each coupler by 
hand..and provide individual calibration number's  to use  for HF...  one for  
fwd..and a 2nd calibration
for rvs.   Then  2 x more just for the 6m   band.    Same deal for their 
vhf/uhf couplers.   That's as good
as it gets..and good enough for me.   The other problem with the bird/cd  units 
is severe lack of resolution...
esp at the upper end of each scale. 

##  You could also use  a CALIBRATED scope  across a  dummy load... and measure 
the rms voltage.  Then
use V squared /  50 ohms.   

##  either way.... you can get something a bit more accurate than  just.. 
48-68%.  If I built an amp that I thought
had 68% eff.... then found out it was really only 48%... I'd go nuts.  Not good 
enough. 

later.. Jim  VE7RF

 
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