Amps
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [Amps] Plate modulation from power supply ripple?

To: TexasRF@aol.com, jim.thom@telus.net, amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Plate modulation from power supply ripple?
From: peter chadwick <g8on@fsmail.net>
Reply-to: g8on@fsmail.net
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2013 17:51:18 +0200
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Gerald,

Ripple on the helix will produce phase modulation - a well known function of 
the TWT used in the Serrodyne. (An electronic warfare approach, where you 
receive the radar signal, amplify it in a TWT with a sawtooth modulation of the 
helix voltage and send it back through another antenna (or circulator and the 
receiver antenna) to make the radar think you're going in a different 
direction!)

Now if you can get hold of a copy of 'Second thoughts on Radio theory' by 
M.G.Scroggie, pages 191 - 200  deal with R-C smoothing, and he shows that by 
splitting and using a number of smaller capacitors and resistors, you can get 
better ripple reduction than one big R and C. So if you have say a 10 mFd 
filter cap and a 12 k glitch resistor using two 5mfd Caps and two 6k resistors, 
you'll get a lot more ripple reduction. That should allow a reduction in glitch 
energy.

BTW, do you run depressed collector?

If you can't get the book, I guess I could scan the necessary pages for you.

73

Peter G3RZP


========================================
 Message Received: Oct 05 2013, 12:44 PM
 From: TexasRF@aol.com
 To: jim.thom@telus.net, amps@contesting.com
 Cc: 
 Subject: Re: [Amps] Plate modulation from power supply ripple?
 
 Jim, it is not that simple. The there is about 9000vdc and normal helix  
 current is less than 5mA.
  
 Right now there is a 12.5K ohm glitch resistor to limit any fault current  
 but that is not enough to fully protect the tube in case of a flashover. 
 More R  could be added but then the voltage drop during normal operation 
 becomes too  much and changes in the helix current screws up the already 
marginal 
 voltage  regulation.
  
 Reducing the amount of filter C would reduce the stored energy but at the  
 expense of higher ripple voltage. I need to spend some time experimenting 
 with  the filter C value to see just how low it can be for acceptable 120 Hz 
 hum on  the carrier. 
  
 The thought of less hum level because of linear operation class was new to  
 me. The filter C design was based on the tube spec showing .08 dB per volt  
 change in gain. In that scenario 10v of ripple would cause a gain change of 
 .8  dB. .8 dB is a power difference of 20% which would be very noticeable 
 if it was  present in the form of hum modulation.
  
 The tube runs class A and is fairly linear but not perfect by any means. It 
  is run at maximum power output, around 300 watts at 10.4 GHz . Running the 
 tube  this way is considered to be in power saturation. That does no damage 
 to the  tube but is not that great for linearity. We mostly use cw or one 
 of the digital  modes so linearity is not an issue.
  
 A suggestion was made to use three phase 400Hz voltage derived from three  
 audio amplifiers to reduce the needed C and that would certainly work.. 
 9000v at  5mA is only 45 watts  Before taking on a major rework like that I 
will 
 do  some homework with existing power supply.
  
 I thought  this was all figured out. Wrong!
  
 73,
 Gerald K5GW
  
  
  
  
 In a message dated 10/5/2013 4:12:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
 jim.thom@telus.net writes:
 
 Date:  Fri, 4 Oct 2013 08:26:13 -0400 (EDT)
 From: TexasRF@aol.com
 To:  ww1c@outlook.com, garyschafer@comcast.net, amps@contesting.com
 Subject: Re:  [Amps] Plate modulation from power supply ripple?
 
 
 My current  interest is mainly in microwave eme operation. Traveling wave  
 tubes  are used to generate power. The homebrew power supplies have a lot 
 of   
 filter C in the helix supply to reduce hum on the transmitted signal.  
 After 
 this  discussion I am wondering if there may be more C than  necessary. 
 Normally it  would not matter but if there is a flashover  in the twt the 
 helix 
 structure  could be damaged. There are trip  circuits to shut the power 
 supply 
 down but most  of the stored energy  would be dissipated in the helix.
 
 73,
 Gerald K5GW
 
 ##   How much B+   ??    How much plate current ??  Just  put a 50 ohm 
 glitch R
 in series with the  B+.... and wire a fast hv  fuse just in front of the 50 
 ohm glitch.
 Anything arcs, the glitch limits  the fault current to a safer value.   The 
 HV fuse interupts
 the  fault current..and  will easily do that in less than 2 msecs.    But 
 you have to size the
 fusing wire correctly.    Add the glitch  +  HV fuse on top of your 
 existing protection. 
 
 Jim   VE7RF    
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 Amps mailing  list
 Amps@contesting.com
 http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
 
 _______________________________________________
 Amps mailing list
 Amps@contesting.com
 http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
 
_______________________________________________
Amps mailing list
Amps@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>