Interesting...I simply put some 'data' out there for review...but am now being
compared to political 'dirty tricks'.
Hank, I've only been contesting for 31 years...a mere neophyte next to the
likes of W8JI and others...My first contest was CQWW CW in 1980 where I came in
14th in the world QRP with a TH3jr and a 30' high inverted vee on 40/80...AND I
was a Novice at the time...restricted to the Novice CW bands. Of course my QTH
was my parents house which was within 1/2 mile of the Atlantic in NH... :))
Contested multi-op and single op from New England.
Contested multi-op and single op from Minnesota.
Contested multi-op and single op from Florida.
Contested multi-op and single op from PJ2, PJ4, J38, VP5, and V26...
Look at 40+ years of data and tell me there are no trends there...There are
PLENTY of very capable contest operators throughout the US...look at some of
the 'guest op's' who come to New England so they can 'win' the major DX
contests.
I suppose that those of us not fortunate enough to be in W1-3 (or W8JI's QTH)
should just quietly except that we have maybe a 10% chance of getting into the
top 10 (ARRL contests at least) and sit down and shut up.
FYI...I operate pretty regularly at NQ4I's station for CQWW CW and was on 15m
this past ARRL DX CW where WA1S and I bested all of the M/M's for a 15m line
score, or all but one...IIRC.
Happy 4th to everyone...
73,
Marty
W1MD (in FL)
---- Tom W8JI <w8ji@w8ji.com> wrote:
> The oldest intentional or political trick in the book, and the most common
> accidental unintentional mistake, is to use statistics or data that at
> casual glance looks compelling to support some argument when that data
> really has little to do with any perceived problem.
>
> The correct way to handle this is to prove and quantify any difference
> caused by distance. In all the years this has been brought up, a simple
> easy-to-do verification experiment was never even attempted. Instead time is
> wasted over and over again comparing things that actually often mean nothing
> at all.
>
> The most recent example was number of spots, the earliest example is who
> scored higher more often. :-)
>
> Before we finished near the top here on 160 year after year, and beat the
> east coast year after year on 40, no one would have though a middle GA
> station with a path up the Appalachians could even place. Even a year ago
> W4ZV "predicted" the race to top spot would be between two east coast
> stations. We weren't even considered. I did this by thinking through
> problems, and thinking out of the box on receiving antennas. It took more
> hours of experiments and thought than it did actual antenna installation,
> and this gave everyone the chance to improve stations. It also didn't cost
> me a fortune in time or money. This all mostly home made stuff.
>
> The sweetest part of competition is admitting things are less than perfect,
> finding and correcting mistakes or shortfalls, and doing better.
>
> 73 Tom
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hank Greeb" <n8xx@arrl.org>
> To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL DX "Leveling, Handicapping, Equalizing"
>
>
> > From these data, one can only conclude that the people on the east
> > coast are more competent contest operators than us dolts who live in
> > other parts of the U.S.A.
> >
> > It's kinda hard to conclude anything else, particularly since the
> > reflector did weird things with the formatting of these data.
> >
> > 73 de n8xx Hg
> >
> > On 7/1/2011 3:00 PM, w1md@cfl.rr.com wrote:
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 10:25:53 -0400
> >> From:<w1md@cfl.rr.com>
> >> Subject: [CQ-Contest] ARRL DX "Leveling, Handicapping, Equalizing"
> >> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> >> Message-ID:<20110701142553.4KK8H.4578.root@cdptpa-web14-z01>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >>
> >> So...the data is there...40+ years of it. Seems that it would be a fairly
> >> easy and straightforward process to use the results of previous years to
> >> come up with a "leveling, handicapping, equalizing" factor that would
> >> take into account the vast majority of factors...including Distance,
> >> Propagation, and those years where there were 'anomalies' that allowed a
> >> station outside of W1-3 and VE1-3 to get into the top ten.
> >>
> >> Sorry about the formatting...this is just 9 years of data (2002-2010) for
> >> the SOHP category.
> >>
> >> 9 out of 90 stations came from areas other than W1-3 or VE1-3 or roughly
> >> 10%
> >> IN =3
> >> VA = 2
> >> CO = 1
> >> STX = 1
> >> WCF = 1
> >> NM = 1
> >>
> >>
> >> 1 K5ZD (W4PA, op) 6,173,244 4,454 462 WMA 1 1 KT1V (NT1N, op) 6,226,974
> >> 4,094 507 NH 1 1 K5ZD (W4PA, op) 6,588,960 4,240 518 WMA 1
> >> 2 K1DG 5,629,746 4,027 466 NH 1 2 KQ2M 5,675,454 4,086 463 CT 1 2 N2NT
> >> 6,343,305 4,187 505 NNJ 2
> >> 3 AA1K 5,172,453 4,019 429 DE 3 3 VY2ZM (K1ZM, op) 5,490,114 3,902 469
> >> MAR 3 K3CR (LZ4AX, op) 5,060,160 3,514 480 WPA 3
> >> 4 W9RE 5,063,502 3,898 433 IN 9 4 K1TO 5,480,952 4,042 452 WCF 4 4 KT1V
> >> 4,946,856 3,782 436 NH 1
> >> 5 K1ZZ 5,045,175 3,957 425 CT 1 5 K5ZD (W4PA, op) 5,458,815 4,089 445 WMA
> >> 1 5 K3ZO 4,640,286 3,298 469 MDC 3
> >> 6 N2IC 4,902,660 3,891 420 CO 0 6 N2NT 4,914,630 3,766 435 NNJ 2 6 W1WEF
> >> 4,569,642 3,234 471 CT 1
> >> 7 W1WEF 4,854,462 3,686 439 CT 1 7 AA1K 4,461,795 3,419 435 DE 3 7 N2LT
> >> 4,361,880 3,260 446 NNJ 2
> >> 8 K2UA 4,789,530 3,942 405 WNY 2 8 K3ZO 4,357,794 3,347 434 MDC 3 8 WC1M
> >> 4,170,264 3,374 412 NH 1
> >> 9 K5GN 4,628,520 3,588 430 STX 5 9 K2UA 4,212,600 3,304 425 WNY 2 9 KQ2M
> >> 4,155,624 3,267 424 CT 1
> >> 10 K3CR (LZ4AX, op) 4,446,192 3,376 439 WPA 3 10 VY2TT 4,043,034 3,186
> >> 423 MAR 10 K1RM 4,120,200 3,052 450 CT 1
> >> 2,002 2,003 2,004
> >>
> >>
> >> 1 VY2ZM (K1ZM, op) 5,382,234 3,978 451 MAR 1 N9RV 4,714,356 3,596 437 IN
> >> 9 1 VY2PA 4,863,075 3,925 413 MAR
> >> 2 KQ2M 4,806,459 3,633 441 CT 1 2 N2NT 4,635,210 3,670 421 NNJ 2 2 N2NT
> >> 4,026,048 3,226 416 NNJ 2
> >> 3 N2NT 4,660,608 3,664 424 NNJ 2 3 K3CR (LZ4AX, op) 4,462,128 3,443 432
> >> WPA 3 3 K3CR (LZ4AX, op) 3,445,200 2,900 396 WPA 3
> >> 4 K3CR (LZ4AX, op) 4,366,941 3,331 437 WPA 3 4 AA1K 4,035,045 3,241 415
> >> DE 3 4 AA1K 3,315,510 2,805 394 DE 3
> >> 5 AA1K 4,190,670 3,366 415 DE 3 5 VE3DZ 3,209,856 2,572 416 ON 5 K1ZZ
> >> 3,128,625 2,781 375 CT 1
> >> 6 K1ZZ 3,850,344 3,027 424 CT 1 6 VY2TT (K6LA, op) 3,198,555 2,755 387
> >> MAR 6 VY2TT 3,042,660 2,669 380 MAR
> >> 7 K5ZD 3,782,652 3,121 404 WMA 1 7 W4RX (K0DQ, op) 3,175,326 2,607 406 VA
> >> 4 7 VC3O (VE3AT, op) 2,793,168 2,282 408 ON
> >> 8 W3GRF (K0DQ, op) 3,764,988 2,946 426 VA 4 8 K3ZO 3,165,855 2,741 385
> >> MDC 3 8 WC1M 2,766,510 2,605 354 NH 1
> >> 9 N2LT 3,687,420 3,020 407 NNJ 2 9 VC3A (VE3AT, op) 3,107,160 2,520 411
> >> ON 9 VE3DZ 2,653,992 2,234 396 ON
> >> 10 WC1M 3,634,536 3,044 398 NH 1 10 K1ZZ 3,103,290 2,523 410 CT 1 10 N2LT
> >> 2,642,400 2,400 367 NNJ 2
> >> 2,005 2,006 2,007
> >>
> >>
> >> 1 K1KI 3,593,274 3,103 386 CT 1 1 VY2ZM (K0DQ, op) 4,892,940 4,006 410
> >> MAR 1 VY2ZM 5,549,292 4,656 399 MAR
> >> 2 K3CR (LZ4AX, op) 3,557,358 3,137 378 WPA 3 2 NN3W (@ N3HBX) 4,066,260
> >> 3,392 404 MDC 3 2 K3CR (LZ4AX, op) 5,514,120 4,362 424 WPA 3
> >> 3 K1ZM 3,501,762 3,121 374 EMA 1 3 K3CR (LZ4AX, op) 3,868,128 3,186 407
> >> WPA 3 3 VY2TT 5,218,695 4,557 387 MAR
> >> 4 N2NT 3,381,240 2,966 380 NNJ 2 4 K5ZD (W1UE, op) 3,717,186 3,361 374
> >> WMA 1 4 K1RX 4,984,317 4,474 377 NH 1
> >> 5 AA1K 2,985,831 2,757 361 DE 3 5 AA1K 3,637,740 3,235 380 DE 3 5 N2IC
> >> 4,757,745 3,796 419 NM 5
> >> 6 K1ZZ 2,851,785 2,495 381 CT 1 6 K1ZZ 3,634,962 3,150 386 CT 1 6 K1ZZ
> >> 4,702,365 3,785 415 CT 1
> >> 7 VC3E (VE3AT, op) 2,802,618 2,639 354 ON 7 WC1M 3,192,783 3,158 341 NH 1
> >> 7 K5ZD 4,586,838 3,972 386 WMA 1
> >> 8 WC1M 2,515,032 2,687 312 NH 1 8 VY2TT (K6LA, op) 3,092,202 3,026 346
> >> MAR 8 W9RE 4,552,119 3,909 393 IN 9
> >> 9 N2LT 2,277,330 2,266 335 NNJ 2 9 N2LT 2,933,856 2,692 366 NNJ 2 9 WC1M
> >> 4,413,225 4,108 361 NH 1
> >> 10 K3ZO 2,209,920 2,302 320 MDC 3 10 W1WEF 2,684,079 2,720 331 CT 1 10
> >> VX3AT (VE3AT, op) 4,398,198 3,639 406 ON
> >> 2,008 2,009 2,010
> >>
> >>
> >> W1MD
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:55:51 -0700
> >> From: w7dra@juno.com
> >> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Distance scoring
> >> To: vk4ti@yahoo.com
> >> Cc: w8ji@w8ji.com, cq-contest@contesting.com
> >> Message-ID:<20110701.085617.989.1373900@mailpop09.vgs.untd.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >> a few years ago i worked a European contest and received a 34th place
> >> certif (SOSB40 LP).
> >>
> >> it is displayed proudly in the shack.....
> >>
> >> mike w7dra
> >> ____________________________________________________________
> >> Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
> >> Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
> >> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e0dee46b179e17c971st04vuc
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2011 11:55:09 -0600
> >> From: "W4ZW@Comcast.net"<w4zw@comcast.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] DX Contest Handicap Proposal
> >> To: "hankkier@aol.com"<hankkier@aol.com>
> >> Cc: "w2lc@twcny.rr.com"<w2lc@twcny.rr.com>,
> >> "cq-contest@contesting.com"<cq-contest@contesting.com>
> >> Message-ID:<E3B62895-05EE-45E9-8A7C-49D73D1D619B@comcast.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >>> Something similar to the rating and slope system for golf courses would
> >>> fit when viewed from a regional basis. This would compensate for
> >>> propagation differences by region. Maybe a handicap system based on
> >>> region? But posting finishes by region in addition to overall, a la SS
> >>> would work. I still favor the shorter time flight for those of us who
> >>> are time restricted (and OOTCers!)
> >>> As a long time contester with limited time, I have always competed just
> >>> for the fun of seeing how well I can do in the time I have available. I
> >>> have operated from all over the US and much of the world and have
> >>> experienced the wide disparity of propagation that exists and not
> >>> generally not based on distance.
> >> Jon, RA/W4ZW
> >> Moscow
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> >>
> >> End of CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 103, Issue 3
> >> ******************************************
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
> _______________________________________________
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