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Re: [CQ-Contest] down the path with Dave

To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] down the path with Dave
From: Pete Smith N4ZR <n4zr@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:27:26 -0500
List-post: <cq-contest@contesting.com">mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
Charly, the only thing that Skimmer replaces is the physical act of tuning the radio. An operator still must copy the CW,. verify that he is copying the station spotted (instead of the one adjacent to it), copy the exchange, and send and receive verification of his exchange. Moreover, a running station receives no assistance from CW Skimmer at all.

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
For spots, please go to your favorite
ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.

On 11/30/2012 8:42 PM, Charles Harpole wrote:
Dave, any time a trend gets a name, like Luddite, that name substitutes for
thinking (like a name for a racial type of person).  Further, it is typical
of rigid personalities to reject reasoned criticism of something they have
a powerful and even vested interest in, extending to the point of
identifying the subject (ham radio) or object (a beloved radio brand) with
the inner human self.

Often that rejection of reasoned criticism goes on to try to throw out the
person delivering the critique and the creation of a "protected zone" of
isolation from critiques.  That latter step guarantees the "inside crowd"
of insulation from any contrary thinking and thus ossification of that
crowd (similar to Romney's advisers thinking that he will win even to
election day due to listening only to the "inside crowd").

The use of  pejorative language, like "childish and shrill," further is a
symptom of the reduction of a reasoned line of comment to a simplistic
kneejerk reaction devoid of reason.
The care of elephants is a noble occupation and one which I wish I could
do, but it is very expensive, beyond my means.

My overall point remains, and that is that not every new invention is
automatically good (like the atomic bomb, but I guess you would like that)
and, further, the careful use of new inventions means evaluating their real
usefulness and long term benefits and drawbacks of the item or idea.  That
evaluation can not occur in the vacuum of blind acceptance of "the new."

The result of the innovation of the CW Skimmer is, I argue, the reduction
of a time-honored practice of the art of radio communication and the joy of
learning and doing something that is difficult, beneficial to the person,
and elegant.  Just as there is no art to making a telephone call, today,
there is no art in the mechanical delivery of CW messages via an easy

What I affirm is that ham radio exists for what I call "a higher fun" which
eschews the easy and simplistic by seeking the complex and activities that
yield deep satisfaction that comes from taking on a task and goal and
accomplishing that after due effort.  In any other context, ham radio is a
firmly obsolete mode of communication, so I see the hobby as similar to
collecting, restoring, and using antique cars... which occurs for the joy
of the activity rather than looking for the easiest transportation.  Why
one would seek to put a 12 cylinder turbo charged 2012 motor into a Model T
is beyond me, and seems to be simply arcane.  Thus, I advocate the practice
of ham radio as close to its origins in order to preserve the values
inherent there and the "higher fun" of this path.

Of course, the Skimmer type stuff also forever makes ham radio contesting a
rather pointless activity, devoid of those pleasures I describe.  I mourn
the loss of this fun for you and future generations.

73, Charly

On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Dave Zeph <zephd@indy.rr.com> wrote:

** **

Charlie you dislike every development in Amateur Radio so vehemently that
I wonder instead of your childish and shrill posts you take up another
hobby instead.  You accomplish nothing except to paint yourself as the Post
Child Luddite.l****

** **

Based on where you live might I suggest Elephant Husbandry?****

** **

** **

Dave, W9PA****

** **

*From:* Charles Harpole [mailto:hs0zcw@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, 30 November, 2012 11:04
*To:* zephd@indy.rr.com
*Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] How isthe Skimmer different?****

** **

Dave, thanks for your message because it gives me practice at holding my
temper with a purposeful blockhead.****


My point was that RTTY and PSK are the real computer digital modes and if
an op wanted more automated work, he should go to these modes and stop
messing up a classic skill that would do any operator well and proud to
operate with skill and grace.****


Geeze, some just cant get it.  73,  Charly****

On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Dave Zeph <zephd@indy.rr.com> wrote:****

Hate to break it to you, but there is a RTTY Skimmer.

And DAMN - PSK is a Digital Mode requiring a computer to decode.

Guess you are just out of luck.

Dave, W9PA****

-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
Charles Harpole
Sent: Thursday, 29 November, 2012 20:03
To: David Gilbert; CQ-Contest Reflector
Subject: [CQ-Contest] How isthe Skimmer different?

Dave, et al.....

Very few automated CW methods allow a person to win a CW contest WITHOUT
KNOWING ANY CODE except the CW Skimmer, partly due to the accuracy of this
cursed system.  True, spots can give you call signs, too, but their
accuracy is less.

For the record, I do not use CW decoders, spotting networks, nor band maps
and I do send every contact with a squeeze key.  I do this for two
reasons...  one is I enjoy using a superior skill (compared to reading a
computer screen) and two is I am using copying CW with only ears and brain
and sending CW by hand as a way to keep my aging brain/hand system
working.  My mom kept sharp in her advancing years with crossword puzzles,
I am using CW.

My point still stands....the joy of using CW as it was invented to be used
is greater and more deeply satisfying than milking the preprepared pap from
CW Skimmer or other automatic devices.  I compared this situation to
natural vs. artificial s*x, and was banned for saying that by the ****
Contest Group's reflector, so here goes here.

Natural and joyful is really better, try it some time.  73, Charly

PS, if the Skimmer is actually really keeping CW alive on the bands, I say
go to RTTY or PSK for full automation and forget the mode that started

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 11:03 PM, David Gilbert

That's really pretty funny considering that you cannot in the least tell
on the air whether the person you are working is using CW Skimmer or not.

Your English may be fine but your logic definitely is not.  You can think
of CW Skimmer as simply the combination of a few other things that have
been in existence (and legal for contesting) for many years:

a.  CW decoders

b.  spotting networks (when claiming an assisted category)

c.  bandmaps

Your rant is sadly misplaced.  I can think of other things like Super
Check Partial and "History" Files generated by others that have
far more to the lessening of skill in radiosport than does CW Skimmer,
I can almost guarantee that you use your logger or a memory keyer to
actually send CW instead of using a hand key dit-by-dah as did those
"founding users" (whatever that means). And you do know that hams,
including those who use CW Skimmer, are pretty much the only ones keeping
this elegant communication mode alive, right??  All those other users
simply abandoned it long ago in favor of modes requiring even less

For the record, I have never used CW Skimmer in text decode mode during a
contest ... but I see absolutely no difference between it and other forms
of assistance when following the rules of the contest.  Please explain to
me how I am wrong ... but try using logic this time.

Dave   AB7E

On 11/29/2012 2:05 AM, Charles Harpole wrote:

I enjoy trying to use the English language to be specific and
Here is my latest effort..............

The CW Skimmer is an obscene perversity of ham radio.  All the art and
skill of this elegant communication mode, CW, is destroyed.  The
users of Morse Code, who saved ships and passed millions of messages
and mundane, are dishonored.  The joy of doing a difficult activity well
lost.  Ham radio in general and contesting specifically is changed
for the worse by this abomination.

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Charly, HS0ZCW****

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Charly, HS0ZCW****

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