Stan and Kelly
Don't take me wrong, but I'm not going to elaborate more on TO7A log.
I was not involved in the checking of this log, I did not see the material
presented by the log checker(s), and as you can imagine, being a member of
CQWW CC, I'm not about to start a side log checking investigation, that has
been done, with the result we all know.
My post is beyond what TO7A did or not, my post was just intended to show
(using public data like RBN and logs) that log checking is far more complex
than it seems and taking:
- log lines without the context of the situation
- assumptions about the way the operator may or may have not operated,
without listening to his audio/video and SDR recording
- assumption of the way he stacks or not mutls, while doing dual CQ
is very misleading.
73 José
On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com> wrote:
> José
>
>
> When I looked at the log I estimated less than 100 S&P QSOs total out of
> more than 8,000 contacts. Did I mess up and there are really over 600?
> You have the computer skills to say for sure. How many S&P QSOs were there
> and how many were new multipliers?
>
> TO7A log http://www.cqww.com/publiclogs/2014cw/to7a.log has 35 S&P "event"
> situations, that netted 638 QSOs, 225 countries and 69 zones.
>
>
> Here it sounds like there were 35 times he left a run frequency to S&P and
> each time "averaged" netting over 18 QSOs in the S&P mode with almost 300
> multipliers as a result... Misleading at the least, if the count is about
> 15% of your number.
>
> You must be counting all the QSOs and multipliers made on the S&P radio
> AND all the QSOs and multipliers from the run radio on another band until
> both radios were in running mode again?
>
> If for some reason it is important to know about how many QSOs he made on
> the run radio while other was S&P, tell us how many of those 225 countries
> and 69 zones were from the several hundred stations who called him versus
> the S&P QSO multiplier count.
>
> Remember TO7A only had 8 minutes and worked the 8 multipliers out of 293
> possible unknown stations on the band.
> Did the multipliers he worked sign their call every minute? Was it possible
> to go from one to another in the 8 minutes time frame? or was it needed to
> stay more than 8 minutes to get the calls in case they sign only every two
> or three QSOs like one would expect from juicy multipliers in heavy pile-up
> situations, with high rate, as can be seen from the public logs?
>
>
> I'll add a question to your list. Is it possible he already had the call
> signs in a band map from prior, short periods of S&P preparation and when
> the rate slowed just a bit he went through the list pouncing on them one at
> a time.
>
> Yes, there is a lot of work to be done to justify a disqualification if it
> is to be based on someone(s) belief or feeling.
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 9, 2015, at 2:39 AM, José Nunes CT1BOH <ct1boh@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It is amazing to me, how some people jump to conclusions without deep
> diving into the data.
> Some just look at some log lines and feel free to say whatever, as if that
> alone would mean anything at all.
>
> First a disclaimer:
> Even tough I am a member for CQWW Contest Committee and have been involved
> in log checking, for the 2014 events, I did not participate in any checking
> process at all. Because of that, I feel free to comment.
>
> The following is done with just public data available on
> http://www.cqww.com/publiclogs/ and http://www.reversebeacon.net/raw_data/
> This is not a log checking analyses. It is just a brief look, an example,
> of the deep analyses needed to make log checking decisions
>
> TO7A is an extraordinary log that has two interesting characteristics:
>
> 1. Dueling CQ on two bands - No problem with that. Videos/audio provided by
> Dmitry on his youtube account show it well.
> 2. S&P "events" - Unfortunately, none of the S&P events are covered in his
> videos
>
> TO7A log http://www.cqww.com/publiclogs/2014cw/to7a.log has 35 S&P "event"
> situations, that netted 638 QSOs, 225 countries and 69 zones.
>
> I will look into just one of these 35 S&P events as an example.
>
> Event number 3 with 8 QSOs on 80 meters. 8 QSO, 8 multiplers, three of them
> double mults (KH7XX, TF3SG, YN2CC)
>
> Event starts at 06:38 and ends at 06:46, just 8 minutes during day 1 of the
> contest. It should be noted that, before this small 8 minute S&P event,
> TO7A had been already active on the band. He already had 50 countries and
> 10 zones. So this new S&P event, was not the type of, new on the band where
> every QSO is a mult, or with band marginal, where one can jump to sparse
> stations on the band, very easy to find, using a waterfall scope for
> example. At the same time of the S&P event TO7A is also running on 40. So
> this is classic SO2R activity - run on one band, S&P on another:
>
> TO7A station 1 is running on 40. Works 13 stations at 97.5 QSOs/H during
> the 8 minutes.
> TO7A station 2 is S&P on 80. Works 8 stations, all of them multipliers
> (OH0X, KH7XX, TF3XG, NP4Z, YN2CC, NP2P, VP2MDX, V47T), during the same 8
> minutes.
>
> With RBN data from Reversebeacon site, we can re-create a so call "TO7A
> band map", to show what was available and what he needed.
> Download RBN data, filter it by band, frequency, call, then cross check
> with log and with minimal work this can be done using excel spreadsheet:
>
> There were 293 station running on 80 meters at the time of the 8 minute
> period, from 3500 to 3600khz.
> This is about average 3 stations per 1 KHZ span - a crowded band - and
> indeed it was, as one would expect from beginning of contest, day 1, with
> band open to Europe and USA.
> 60 stations spotted by RBN and running on the band, had already been worked
> before, by TO7A, in his previous activity on the band:
>
> So:
>
> 293 stations calling CQ and making QSOs on the band from 3500 to 3600Khz
> 233 station are needed QSOs
> 29 station are needed multipliers
>
> But looking closer to those 29 needed multipliers, the times they were
> spotted (from RBN data) and the QSOs they made (using the public logs), one
> can see that 14 of them, even tough spotted on the RBN and on a "band map",
> were not available to work, by the time TO7A could have find them (remember
> TO7A log shows a steady up tuning during those 8 minutes, 06:38-3526,
> 06:41-3540, 06:42-3546, 06:42-3547, 06:43-3549, 06:45-3552, 06:46-3554,
> 06:46-3560).
> So, in the end, there were 15 possible needed multipliers
>
>
> So the bottom line is:
>
> TO7A is running on 40 @ 97.5 QSO/H
> TO7A is S&P on 80
>
> In 8 minutes, he is facing 293 station that he does not know who they are,
> on a crowded band.
> 60 stations are dupes, 233 are new and 15 of them happen to be multipliers.
> He makes 8 QSOs, all of them multipliers in 8 minutes.
> He has to pick a signal out of the 293, stop and listen to QSOs finnish or
> CQ call, get each call, then call the station, then go to the next one,
> wait for a call,...,and so on. Or he "just" finds the mults out of the
> band...
>
> Again, this is just to show you guys, the type of data needed to look at
> logs.
>
> Remember TO7A had 35 S&P events like the one described above.... I'm just
> looking here, at one of them.
>
> CQWW Log checkers, also have additional tools, like SDR recordings, that
> will help check things further.
>
> Remember TO7A only had 8 minutes and worked the 8 multipliers out of 293
> possible unknown stations on the band.
> Did the multipliers he worked sign their call every minute? Was it possible
> to go from one to another in the 8 minutes time frame? or was it needed to
> stay more than 8 minutes to get the calls in case they sign only every two
> or three QSOs like one would expect from juicy multipliers in heavy pile-up
> situations, with high rate, as can be seen from the public logs?
>
>
> Log checking is much more complex, goes much deeper and takes a lot more
> hours than most people think....
> A log that deserves attention need hour of manual work, hours of going
> through SDR files, hours of preparing the material, hours of peer log
> checker group discussion until a decision can be made.
> Please give credit to those who do it, that things are done in a
> "professional way" with much thought, much discussion...
>
> Just looking at a log line, and saying whatever, is not enough.
>
> 73 CT1BOH - José Nunes
> --
> José Nunes
> CONTEST CT1BOH - htt <http://www.qsl.net/ct1boh>p://www.qsl.net/ct1boh
> <http://www.qsl.net/ct1boh>
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>
>
--
José Nunes
CONTEST CT1BOH - http://www.qsl.net/ct1boh
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