Hi Mike,
Who’s to say it wouldn’t be obvious if someone was gaming the system?
A station that changes bands continuously throughout a 10-minute window would
clearly be breaking the rules, X-QSO or not.
Remember, X-QSO doesn’t scrub incriminating evidence from logs, rather, it
leaves that evidence intact. It just means you don’t get credit for X-QSOs. The
log checkers would still see you were flouting the rules.
Nobody is saying you can use X-QSO as a cover for flagrant violations. Why
assume otherwise?
We already have a catchall of “unsportsmanlike conduct” that can be used to
reclassify logs as checklogs, or DQ the station. It would seem pretty clear to
me that if a station works someone nine minutes, 36 seconds into a 10-minute
window and then X-QSOs it and doesn’t work another station till 10 minutes is
up, it was just an “Ooops.” The X-QSO means there was zero benefit to the
station making that mistake, and there’s zero benefit to making a zero-benefit
QSO.
Another example is SS: you can only work 24 hours, and your six hours off have
to be clearly marked. And they have to actually be OFF times. You could not
work all 30 hours, X-QSO the worst six hours and expect to be cleared of
violating that rule. The evidence would be staring the log checkers in the face!
A golfer who files an incorrect scorecard is not DQd. A week or two ago, Lexi
Thompson did just that and went on to lose by only one point: a viewer emailed
the LPGA alleging she didn’t, in round 3, place her ball on the exact same spot
on the green from which she picked it up. The next day, she was informed she
was getting a two-stroke penalty for moving the ball and a two-stroke penalty
for filing an incorrect scorecard the day before. So your assertion golfers are
DQd in this instance is not supported by recent history.
However, the LPGA would have the option of DQing someone for repeated unclaimed
violations.
I don’t think contesting — where a win is worth nothing but bragging rights —
needs to be stricter than a sport watched by millions with millions of dollars
on the line for winners. Do you?
X-QSO is a way to be honest with the log checkers. It’s a way of saying ‘Hey, I
worked this guy, I shouldn’t have, and I’m not claiming it.’ It’s the
equivalent of a golfer, on hole 18, saying, “You know, on reflection, I should
take this number of penalty strokes because I’m pretty sure now that I touched
the sand in that bunker on 8.” It’s not hiding anything.
You can’t “scrub” logs with X-QSO, but X-QSO is a more honest fix than what was
available previously, which was using the ‘delete’ key.
73, kelly, ve4xt
> On Apr 12, 2017, at 4:29 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu@w0mu.com> wrote:
>
> So with this logic, it would benefit any Multis to break the 10 minute rules
> all the time and them scrub the log with little X's and remove the qso's that
> benefit them the least? Is that what happened in 2016? Will we ever know
> the rest of the story. Will these Multi's be made public and asked to
> provide some explanations? If the Multi in question had used little X's at
> least other participants would not have been damaged while the multi get off
> scott free?
>
> A golfer that attempts to hide a mistake will be DQed. They also have very
> stiff penalties in the form of strokes that are added to their score where
> winners and losers are decided by 1 stroke many many times.
>
> Car racing you exceed the pit speed limit, you lose a lap. Good luck
> winning. It can happen but not often
>
> If you don't run the right course on a running race, you get a DQ. Step over
> the line tossing a javelin and the toss does not count I can go on for a long
> time about many other sporting competitions where you are penalized for
> breaking the rules. Not in contesting. Sorry about that 12 or 15 minutes of
> extra time, self spots, excessive power and on and on and most just want to
> look the other way.
>
> Should multi's that can't count to 10 be penalized 2 to 10 mults per
> occurrence? You break the 10 minute rule by choice. It is part of the game
> to get it right, just like copying callsigns. Using a little X to make things
> right does not sit well with me. Maybe they should lose 10 minutes of qso's
> on both sides of the mistake?
>
> Brain cramps? Mistakes or calculated choices? That is hard to judge.
>
> How about people follow the rules instead of giving people more ways to game
> the game? The rules are pretty freaking simple. The only reason people keep
> pushing the rules is that very little is ever done. We can't embarrass our
> buddies, that club needs the points to win, etc.
>
> I have no empathy for those that can't managed to do the right things and
> have a boat load of excuses why they broke said rules.
>
> Are we to the point where we just give everyone the same certificate to make
> everyone feel wonderful in radio contesting?
>
> The unassisted guy the uses packet and then claims Unassisted and scrubs a
> few packet contacts to make it look better with some cute little X's?
>
> Intentionally deleting contacts to avoid a 10 minute issue lacks any
> integrity and honesty. I find it hard to believe that people would support
> it.
>
> Self spotting? Who cares. People build skimmers and put them at friends
> houses or at their own to get spotted on CW and RTTY. What is the difference?
> We had a huge discussion about this and I think most people seemed to agree
> that limited self spotting would actually benefit the contest.
>
> To allow people to break the rules and then just allow them off the hook with
> an X in a log is a total joke and insults the rest of us that can read and
> follow the rules.
>
> W0MU
>
>
> On 4/12/2017 10:54 AM, Kelly Taylor wrote:
>> (This is directed at the thread, not to counter anything written by K3ZJ)
>>
>> The X-QSO tool is a sound practice of correcting for brain cramps. I do not
>> believe anyone would want a big multi-op station’s entire weekend ruined by
>> inadvertently screwing up the 10-minute rule or misjudging when to get back
>> on after a mandated break period. X-QSO allows for that, as you are not
>> claiming credit for QSOs made in violation.
>>
>> Golf is one of the most-scrutinized ‘honor’ sports there is, to the point
>> viewers on TV can even spot violations and notify organizers by email.
>> However, even if such violations prove true, the golfer’s entire tournament
>> is not necessarily lost: a penalty is applied for failing to claim a stroke
>> and a further penalty is claimed for filing a false scorecard.
>>
>> However, if the golfer identifies the violation and records the appropriate
>> penalty before submitting the scorecard, all is good. This can happen at ANY
>> TIME before submitting the card — at the time of the violation or after
>> holing out the 18th. Either way, the score still counts, even if failing to
>> record a penalty carries very punitive consequences.
>>
>> Is the X-QSO not the same as saying, “Hey, I moved that ball before striking
>> it, so I’m taking the penalty stroke.”?
>>
>> The scenario raised features an unassisted op working a bunch of packet
>> spots and then marking each as X-QSO. This is interesting, but I don’t see
>> the point, since X-QSO means the QSOs don't count at all: you don’t get the
>> QSO points nor do you get the multipliers. It’s in the log so the people you
>> worked don’t pay for your mistake, but you gain no benefit from the QSOs.
>>
>>
>> 73, kelly, ve4xt
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 12, 2017, at 6:13 AM, David Siddall <hhamwv@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> To be clear in context and for *most* contests, for mono band (single band)
>>> entries, there is no need to use the "X-QSO" function for QSOs on a
>>> different band. Assuming that your single band category is correctly
>>> identified in the cabrillo file, all QSOs on a different band (1) will be
>>> disregarded for purposes of your submission but (2) counted for the
>>> correspondent station. The "X-QSO" function is to remove QSOs from your
>>> score within your category that otherwise would be included.
>>>
>>> 73, Dave K3ZJ
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Randy Thompson K5ZD <k5zd@charter.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This will depend on the contest. For CQWW, the other station should
>>>> receive
>>>> credit for the QSO.
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Peter Voelpel [mailto:dj7ww@t-online.de]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 10:38 AM
>>>>> To: k5zd@charter.net
>>>>> Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
>>>>> Subject: RE: [CQ-Contest] CQWW LCR's and log scrubbing
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Randy,
>>>>>
>>>>> What happens to the other station?
>>>>>
>>>>> I had two QSOs in CQWW 2016 marked with X on a different band while doing
>>>>> mono band.
>>>>> Both qsos are listed under "Stations Receiving Not In Log From DJ7WW".
>>>>> Their public logs show them both.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
>>>>> Randy Thompson K5ZD
>>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 12. April 2017 12:19
>>>>> To: john@kk9a.com; cq-contest@contesting.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] CQWW LCR's and log scrubbing
>>>>>
>>>>> The Cabrillo specification does allow for this. See
>>>>> https://wwrof.org/cabrillo/cabrillo-specification-v3/
>>>>>
>>>>> X-QSO: qso-data
>>>>> Any QSO marked with this tag will be ignored in your log. Use to mark
>>>>> QSOs made that you do not want to count toward your score.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This tag was created to give people a way to mark a QSO as not counting
>>>>> and not have to remove it from their log.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: Not every contest may accept this tag, but it is recognized by the
>>>>> major contests.
>>>>>
>>>>> Randy, K5ZD
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of john@kk9a.com
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:45 AM
>>>>>> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] CQWW LCR's and log scrubbing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a way to have some unclaimed QSOs in a cabrillo file?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John KK9A
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] CQWW LCR's and log scrubbing
>>>>>> From: "Dick Green WC1M"
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2017 15:31:33 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was advised to do that by K3EST for the 8P8P CQ WW SSB M/S log when
>>>>>> we discovered that a bug in our logging software caused us to make a
>>>>>> significant number of QSOs outside the 10-minute window. This was back
>>>>>> in the days when log scrubbing wasn't as strongly discouraged as it is
>>>>> now.
>>>>>> I don't know what the CQ WW CC would advise today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73, Dick WC1M
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> _______________________________________________
>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
_______________________________________________
CQ-Contest mailing list
CQ-Contest@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
|