GREAT FEEDBACK! Anyone else have some background for me?
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
Behalf Of Norm Young
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 3:31 PM
To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
Interesting point, Kevin. I suppose all of us are perhaps victims of
overly optimistic thinking. But that said, here's my situation: very rural,
sparsely populated, and about 3-4k households w/in reach of my superPOP
which is located up on a mountain central to the area We've been running
for 2 months now and we have all of 10 customers. (However, the number of
"interested" seems to be expanding...and this is in the teeth of media BS
notwithstanding, a pretty steep economic downturn.) No competition in the
service areas. I would like to be able to serve 60-100 customers per radio,
as adding AP's means more power (i.e.; solar) infrastructure I have to
purchase and maintain (and find room for!). Call me crazy, but I think that
I can eventually get 10% of my service area (at least) to subscribe. That's
300-400 customers. If I have to add an AP for every 60 customers, I'm going
to have to have 5-6 AP's. That's going to be an additional 4-5 more solar
arrays than I have now, and there simply is no room for them(or the
batteries). So...I'll be forced to start searching for another WiSP
solution than can scale better--and probably sooner rather than later.
Norm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Knuth" <kknuth@karlnet.com>
To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> Norm,
>
> We start getting into some pretty deep thinking at this point!
>
> Here is another way of looking at it: Assume you have 39 customers and
they
> all are allowed 128Mbps. I agree that VERY few of them will want their
> rated BW at the moment in time. BUT: If several of them are using the
> system for something...even moving a small packet....it ties up the BASE
> station radio...EVERYONE ELSE HAS TO WAIT for the BASE to poll them.
>
> It is more of a simple problem of how much bandwidth that you have, the
TIME
> it take to poll is a critical factor! The more customers you add, the
more
> crucial the polling algorithm becomes. That is why our TurboCell
algorithm
> is Adaptive and Dynamic.
>
> I am curious though, as to how many users, realistically, WISPs think they
> can support from a single BASE station (let's not worry about TurboCell
key
> limits at this point).
>
> Before I worked at Karlnet, I worked for a WISP in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
We
> catered to businesses only, as I chose to not compete with cable and DSL.
> It was VERY profitable, and is still in business today (although under a
> different name). Since we chose not to service residential, I found that
> our user density was actually quite low.
>
> I bring that up because I saw at the WCA conference a demo by Navini
> Networks. Very cool product, no doubt. NON line of sight 2.4 or 2.6Ghz
> systems with a complete CPE cost of $300! But here is the catch: You
need
> a base station every 3 kilometers at a price of $130,000 each! The Navini
> rep pointed out that the system can handle 1,000 subscribers, but I do not
> personally know of too many markets where you will EVER get that kind of
> user density.
>
> SO listers: Give us an idea of how many users you CURRENTLY serve off of
> base stations and how many you realistically see serving in the future!
>
> On side note: Through our direct sales and OEM arrangements, Karlnet is
one
> of the most widely used WISP solutions in the world. And, at last count,
I
> think we only had about 8 customers exceeding 48 users per base station.
I
> am curious to see if that is because they engineered around our user
limits,
> or if the customer density is simply not there.
>
> Kevin
> *************************************
> Kevin R. Knuth
> Regional Business Development Manager
> 614-822-5275 Corporate Office
> 260-424-9690 Home Office
> 260-402-6086 Cell
> www.karlnet.com
> *************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> Behalf Of Norm Young
> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 11:32 PM
> To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
>
>
> Doug, doesn't your figures below about the number of customers at a given
> data rate assume that they are all consuming their rated BW
simultaneously?
> So, say, a bunch of 128k customers in real-life would probably never all
> want their rated BW at the exact same moment, so effectively, a radio
could
> support many more than 39 customers assuming a 5 Mbps connection, correct?
> (I hope this is correct, as I don't see how anyone could make money
selling
> 39 connections of almost anything and having to buy 3 or so T1s to support
> those 39 customers!)
>
> Norm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Support" <support@karlnet.com>
> To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 6:21 AM
> Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
>
>
> > Travis,
> >
> > The 200 remotes is a "Wow" number we are working towards. There is no
> > guarantee, but you set goals and try. Of course the bandwidth you
promise
> > customers and your RF link quality are the leading factors in numbers of
> > remote stations you can hook up. So if you have 5 Mbps throughput and
> > everyone you sign up wants 1Mbps then the total number of customers can
be
> > 5. If you sign everyone up at 128k then 39 is the limit. If your RF
link
> > is poor then the throughput goes down from retransmissions and the
number
> of
> > simultaneous connections is lower. So this is something to keep in mind
> as
> > we add more connections to the software.
> >
> > Doug Harman
> > KarlNet, Inc.
> > 525 Metro Place North
> > Suite 100
> > Dublin, OH 43017
> > 614 822-5275 x 123
> > 614 822-0024 fax
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
[mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > Behalf Of Travis Brown
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:42 PM
> > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug,
> > >
> > > 200? Wow... Can the hardware really support that?
> > >
> > > Everyone gets a timeslice the size of a toothpick. :-)
> > >
> > > Travis
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Support
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:35 PM
> > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > I think the confusion comes from some people calling the entire
Wireless
> > > Bridge/Router a "radio". So someone will say the limit is 64 per
> > > "radio" when actually they mean the entire hardware unit. So far
we've
> > > only had a handful of people needing more than 64 remote units per
Base.
> > > In this case we gave them a beta copy of a bin with support for 128
> > > remotes and we got feedback that it worked. When we feel comfortable
> > > that 128 remotes works well on a number of networks, then the next
step
> > > will be for 200 +/- remotes per wireless bridge.
> > >
> > > Doug Harman
> > > KarlNet, Inc.
> > > 525 Metro Place North
> > > Suite 100
> > > Dublin, OH 43017
> > > 614 822-5275 x 123
> > > 614 822-0024 fax
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > Behalf Of Jim
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 11:05 AM
> > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was sold Karlnet under the impression that I could currently
support
> > >
> > > > 64 users PER RADIO and that very soon (3 month or so ago) that
number
> > > > would go to 128 users PER RADIO.
> > > >
> > > > If what you are saying is correct, and ESPECIALLY if I will be
> > > > expected to pay more for a higher user support key, I am through
with
> > > > Karlnet.
> > > >
> > > > Jim Evans
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Kevin Knuth" <kknuth@karlnet.com>
> > > > To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:49 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Larry,
> > > > >
> > > > > We are working to get the unit to support MORE users. This is
> > > > an issue of
> > > > > programming and my understanding is we have to "move" some things
> > > > > around
> > > > to
> > > > > make room in the tables for more users.
> > > > >
> > > > > A key for 96 users is, I believe, in test at this time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kevin
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > > Behalf Of barrywhitcomb
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:40 AM
> > > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I asked just this question to the Karlnet people at the WISPCON
> > > > > show. I intentionally asked this question very clearly to make
sure
> > > > > that I understood. I was told that Turbo ISP basestation FlashROM
> > > > > would support multiple radios, each with 48-64 users depending on
> > > > > version (and with 96 users " very soon").
> > > > >
> > > > > Barry Whitcomb
> > > > > Quantum Success, Inc. / All Clear Wireless
> > > > > 265 Paces Lakes Drive
> > > > > Dallas, GA 30157
> > > > > 770-505-1896
> > > > > F: 770-234-5334
> > > > >
> > > > > www.all-clear.biz
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
> > > > > On Behalf Of Larry Yunker
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:33 AM
> > > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't agree that the limit should be set up this way. If a
single
> > >
> > > > > radio can support up to 64 client sessions, then 3 radios SHOULD
be
> > > > > allowed to support 64 X 3. I understand that Karlnet support just
> > > > > said that it doesn't work this way, but it really SHOULD, it would
> > > > > be a service to their clients if they would change that limit.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > > > From: "Support" <support@karlnet.com>
> > > > > Reply-To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:38:26 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > > >Hello Nate, thanks for the inquiry. The 64 user license is for
the
> > > > > >"box" unit.This is a combination of ALL RADIO interfaces, this
> > > > > >number is based on expected throughput.So the answer would be
> > > > > >false, 3x64 is not a viable solution.RLM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > >From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > >[mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > > >Behalf Of Nate McLain
> > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 10:18 PM
> > > > > >To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > >Subject: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I have a question about how many users you can put on a flashrom
> > > > > >unit? Maybe Doug can answer this question. When Im in the
> > > > > >configuration of the flashrom it shows that you can put 64
> > > > > >satellite's on the interface. And I have 3 radio interfaces so we
> > > > > >should be able to put 3 x 64 satellites = 192 satellites. Or is
> > > > > >this false?? Because that is what I thought. But I was told
> > > > > >otherwise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Can someone from Karlnet give some insight into this question??
> > > > > >
> > > > > >TIA,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Nate McLain
> > > > > >Chisholm Trail Networks LLC
> > > > > >nate@ctrail.net
> > > > > >http://www.ctrail.net
> > > > > >580-401-6656 _______________________________________________
> > > > > >Karlnet mailing list
> > > > > >Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > >http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > > > >
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