Jim
Per box or base station. Sorry about that was thinking of a single port
AP when I wrote the email :)
Sincerely
Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group
Office: 908-996-7995
Cell: 908-246-9170
Fax: 908-847-0202
email: tony@demarctech.com
http://www.demarctech.com
Wireless Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 9:24 PM
To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
Tony,
Do you mean per radio or per AP?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony " <tonylist@wwwbiz.com>
To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 5:23 PM
Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> Norm
>
> If an AP would scale to 128 users per radio you would be ok, correct?
>
> Sincerely
> Tony Morella
> Demarc Technology Group
> Office: 908-996-7995
> Cell: 908-246-9170
> Fax: 908-847-0202
> email: tony@demarctech.com
> http://www.demarctech.com
> Wireless Solution Provider
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
> On Behalf Of Norm Young
> Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 4:31 PM
> To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
>
>
> Interesting point, Kevin. I suppose all of us are perhaps victims of
> overly optimistic thinking. But that said, here's my situation: very
> rural, sparsely populated, and about 3-4k households w/in reach of my
> superPOP which is located up on a mountain central to the area We've
> been running for 2 months now and we have all of 10 customers.
> (However, the number of "interested" seems to be expanding...and this
> is in the teeth of media BS notwithstanding, a pretty steep economic
> downturn.) No competition in the service areas. I would like to be
> able to serve 60-100 customers per radio, as adding AP's means more
> power (i.e.;
> solar) infrastructure I have to purchase and maintain (and find room
> for!). Call me crazy, but I think that I can eventually get 10% of my
> service area (at least) to subscribe. That's 300-400 customers. If I
> have to add an AP for every 60 customers, I'm going to have to have
5-6
> AP's. That's going to be an additional 4-5 more solar arrays than I
> have now, and there simply is no room for them(or the batteries).
> So...I'll be forced to start searching for another WiSP solution than
> can scale better--and probably sooner rather than later.
>
> Norm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Knuth" <kknuth@karlnet.com>
> To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 8:10 AM
> Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
>
>
> > Norm,
> >
> > We start getting into some pretty deep thinking at this point!
> >
> > Here is another way of looking at it: Assume you have 39 customers
> > and
> they
> > all are allowed 128Mbps. I agree that VERY few of them will want
> > their rated BW at the moment in time. BUT: If several of them are
> > using the system for something...even moving a small packet....it
ties
>
> > up the BASE station radio...EVERYONE ELSE HAS TO WAIT for the BASE
> > to
> > poll them.
> >
> > It is more of a simple problem of how much bandwidth that you have,
> > the
> TIME
> > it take to poll is a critical factor! The more customers you add,
> > the
> more
> > crucial the polling algorithm becomes. That is why our TurboCell
> algorithm
> > is Adaptive and Dynamic.
> >
> > I am curious though, as to how many users, realistically, WISPs
> > think
> > they can support from a single BASE station (let's not worry about
> > TurboCell
> key
> > limits at this point).
> >
> > Before I worked at Karlnet, I worked for a WISP in Fort Wayne,
> > Indiana.
> We
> > catered to businesses only, as I chose to not compete with cable and
> > DSL. It was VERY profitable, and is still in business today
(although
> > under a different name). Since we chose not to service residential,
I
>
> > found that our user density was actually quite low.
> >
> > I bring that up because I saw at the WCA conference a demo by Navini
> > Networks. Very cool product, no doubt. NON line of sight 2.4 or
> > 2.6Ghz systems with a complete CPE cost of $300! But here is the
> > catch: You
> need
> > a base station every 3 kilometers at a price of $130,000 each! The
> > Navini rep pointed out that the system can handle 1,000 subscribers,
> > but I do not personally know of too many markets where you will EVER
> > get that kind of user density.
> >
> > SO listers: Give us an idea of how many users you CURRENTLY serve
> > off
>
> > of base stations and how many you realistically see serving in the
> > future!
> >
> > On side note: Through our direct sales and OEM arrangements,
> > Karlnet
> > is
> one
> > of the most widely used WISP solutions in the world. And, at last
> > count,
> I
> > think we only had about 8 customers exceeding 48 users per base
> > station.
> I
> > am curious to see if that is because they engineered around our user
> limits,
> > or if the customer density is simply not there.
> >
> > Kevin
> > *************************************
> > Kevin R. Knuth
> > Regional Business Development Manager
> > 614-822-5275 Corporate Office
> > 260-424-9690 Home Office
> > 260-402-6086 Cell
> > www.karlnet.com
> > *************************************
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > Behalf Of Norm Young
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 11:32 PM
> > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> >
> >
> > Doug, doesn't your figures below about the number of customers at a
> > given data rate assume that they are all consuming their rated BW
> simultaneously?
> > So, say, a bunch of 128k customers in real-life would probably never
> > all want their rated BW at the exact same moment, so effectively, a
> > radio
> could
> > support many more than 39 customers assuming a 5 Mbps connection,
> > correct? (I hope this is correct, as I don't see how anyone could
make
>
> > money
> selling
> > 39 connections of almost anything and having to buy 3 or so T1s to
> > support those 39 customers!)
> >
> > Norm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Support" <support@karlnet.com>
> > To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 6:21 AM
> > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> >
> >
> > > Travis,
> > >
> > > The 200 remotes is a "Wow" number we are working towards. There
> > > is
> > > no guarantee, but you set goals and try. Of course the bandwidth
> > > you
> promise
> > > customers and your RF link quality are the leading factors in
> > > numbers of remote stations you can hook up. So if you have 5 Mbps
> > > throughput and everyone you sign up wants 1Mbps then the total
> > > number of customers can
> be
> > > 5. If you sign everyone up at 128k then 39 is the limit. If your
> > > RF
> link
> > > is poor then the throughput goes down from retransmissions and the
> number
> > of
> > > simultaneous connections is lower. So this is something to keep
> > > in
> > > mind
> > as
> > > we add more connections to the software.
> > >
> > > Doug Harman
> > > KarlNet, Inc.
> > > 525 Metro Place North
> > > Suite 100
> > > Dublin, OH 43017
> > > 614 822-5275 x 123
> > > 614 822-0024 fax
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > Behalf Of Travis Brown
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:42 PM
> > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Doug,
> > > >
> > > > 200? Wow... Can the hardware really support that?
> > > >
> > > > Everyone gets a timeslice the size of a toothpick. :-)
> > > >
> > > > Travis
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
> > > > On Behalf Of Support
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:35 PM
> > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jim,
> > > >
> > > > I think the confusion comes from some people calling the entire
> Wireless
> > > > Bridge/Router a "radio". So someone will say the limit is 64
> > > > per
> > > > "radio" when actually they mean the entire hardware unit. So
far
> we've
> > > > only had a handful of people needing more than 64 remote units
> > > > per
> Base.
> > > > In this case we gave them a beta copy of a bin with support for
> > > > 128 remotes and we got feedback that it worked. When we feel
> > > > comfortable that 128 remotes works well on a number of networks,
> > > > then the next
> step
> > > > will be for 200 +/- remotes per wireless bridge.
> > > >
> > > > Doug Harman
> > > > KarlNet, Inc.
> > > > 525 Metro Place North
> > > > Suite 100
> > > > Dublin, OH 43017
> > > > 614 822-5275 x 123
> > > > 614 822-0024 fax
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > > Behalf Of Jim
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 11:05 AM
> > > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was sold Karlnet under the impression that I could currently
> support
> > > >
> > > > > 64 users PER RADIO and that very soon (3 month or so ago) that
> number
> > > > > would go to 128 users PER RADIO.
> > > > >
> > > > > If what you are saying is correct, and ESPECIALLY if I will be
> > > > > expected to pay more for a higher user support key, I am
through
> with
> > > > > Karlnet.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Evans
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Kevin Knuth" <kknuth@karlnet.com>
> > > > > To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:49 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Larry,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We are working to get the unit to support MORE users. This
> > > > > > is
> > > > > an issue of
> > > > > > programming and my understanding is we have to "move" some
> > > > > > things around
> > > > > to
> > > > > > make room in the tables for more users.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A key for 96 users is, I believe, in test at this time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kevin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > > > Behalf Of barrywhitcomb
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:40 AM
> > > > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I asked just this question to the Karlnet people at the
> > > > > > WISPCON show. I intentionally asked this question very
clearly
>
> > > > > > to make
> sure
> > > > > > that I understood. I was told that Turbo ISP basestation
> > > > > > FlashROM would support multiple radios, each with 48-64
users
> > > > > > depending on version (and with 96 users " very soon").
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Barry Whitcomb
> > > > > > Quantum Success, Inc. / All Clear Wireless
> > > > > > 265 Paces Lakes Drive
> > > > > > Dallas, GA 30157
> > > > > > 770-505-1896
> > > > > > F: 770-234-5334
> > > > > >
> > > > > > www.all-clear.biz
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
> > > > > > On Behalf Of Larry Yunker
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:33 AM
> > > > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't agree that the limit should be set up this way. If
> > > > > > a
> single
> > > >
> > > > > > radio can support up to 64 client sessions, then 3 radios
> > > > > > SHOULD
> be
> > > > > > allowed to support 64 X 3. I understand that Karlnet support
> > > > > > just said that it doesn't work this way, but it really
SHOULD,
>
> > > > > > it would be a service to their clients if they would change
> > > > > > that limit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------- Original Message
> > > > > > ----------------------------------
> > > > > > From: "Support" <support@karlnet.com>
> > > > > > Reply-To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:38:26 -0400
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Hello Nate, thanks for the inquiry. The 64 user license is
> > > > > > >for
> the
> > > > > > >"box" unit.This is a combination of ALL RADIO interfaces,
> > > > > > >this number is based on expected throughput.So the answer
> > > > > > >would be false, 3x64 is not a viable solution.RLM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > >[mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > > > >Behalf Of Nate McLain
> > > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 10:18 PM
> > > > > > >To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > >Subject: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I have a question about how many users you can put on a
> > > > > > >flashrom unit? Maybe Doug can answer this question. When Im
> > > > > > >in the configuration of the flashrom it shows that you can
> > > > > > >put 64 satellite's on the interface. And I have 3 radio
> > > > > > >interfaces so we should be able to put 3 x 64 satellites =
> > > > > > >192 satellites. Or is this false?? Because that is what I
> > > > > > >thought. But I was told otherwise.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Can someone from Karlnet give some insight into this
> > > > > > >question??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >TIA,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Nate McLain
> > > > > > >Chisholm Trail Networks LLC
> > > > > > >nate@ctrail.net
> > > > > > >http://www.ctrail.net
> > > > > > >580-401-6656
> > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > >Karlnet mailing list
> > > > > > >Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > >http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > >Karlnet mailing list
> > > > > > >Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > >http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Karlnet mailing list
> > > > > > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Karlnet mailing list
> > > > > > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Karlnet mailing list
> > > > > > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Karlnet mailing list
> > > > > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Karlnet mailing list
> > > > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Karlnet mailing list
> > > > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Karlnet mailing list
> > > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Karlnet mailing list
> > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Karlnet mailing list
> > Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Karlnet mailing list
> Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
>
> _______________________________________________
> Karlnet mailing list
> Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
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