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Re: [RFI] Nasty RFI wiping out higher bands

To: Hardy Landskov <n7rt@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Nasty RFI wiping out higher bands
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri@rogerhalstead.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:37:52 -0500
List-post: <rfi@contesting.com">mailto:rfi@contesting.com>

Hardy Landskov wrote:
> Roger,
> Ok so where do we buy appliances now that are RFI free? Seems like 
> everything is going digital with a microprocessor and a switching 
> power supply.
Good question.

Like computers I'm sure there are those that are quiet and those that 
I'd go to a "full line" store , pick out the ones I, or more correctly, 
my wife was interested in,  explain the situation  that one creating 
interference would not be acceptable and would they let us try one, with 
the agreement we'd be purchasing a washer and dryer if we could find 
both that did not cause interference. I've done this with HD TVs (that 
cost much more than the washer and dryer combined) and other appliances 
and not found a reluctant dealer yet and that includes the "big box" 
stores.  This approach has a much larger effect than calling the 
manufacturer after the fact or for that matter even dealing with the 
manufacturer.  Particularly with the economy in its present shape, if 
dealers start complaining to the manufacturer it has a much larger 
effect than if you or I do so. Right now, at least for the most part the 
power lies in the hands of the consumer.

OTOH I rebuilt out old washer at least twice, the dryer once, and even 
our high efficiency furnace once and if necessary I could have done it 
again. And don't forget those furnaces and thermostats. They too have 
been reported to be a royal pain

I hate to say this, but a noisy washer, or dryer in our house probably, 
might not, (I have to emphasize the probably and might not) cause a 
problem as my wife and I are both hams. IOW we wouldn't be operating and 
washing at the same time and washing clothes is not something we have to 
do at a specific time, BUT our children are grown and gone from home and 
we are both retired.

OTOH we purchased a new  energy saving washer and dryer within the last 
two months. "Frigidare Affinity" and we've had no noise from 
them...yet.  A few problems with the operation of the computer in the 
dryer as it occasionally gets confused, but no RFI. Whether that varies 
from model to model I can't say.

73 and good luck,

Roger (K8RI)

> Hardy N7RT
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger (K8RI)" 
> <k8ri@rogerhalstead.com>
> To: "Paul Christensen" <w9ac@arrl.net>
> Cc: <rfi@contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 7:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Nasty RFI wiping out higher bands
>> Paul Christensen wrote:
>>>> We should all be writing our Directors asking for attention and 
>>>> action on
>>>> this issue.
>> Seems to me we should be writing the manufacturers of the devices.
>>> Sec. 15.103(d) reads as follows:
>>> "(d) A digital device utilized exclusively in an appliance, e.g.,
>>>    microwave oven, dishwasher, clothes dryer, air conditioner 
>>> (central or
>>>    window), etc."
>>> What exactly is "etc.?"   We cannot continue to allow the drafting 
>>> of these
>>> absurdly-constructed rules that allow anyone to fill in the blanks 
>>> with any
>>> device they deem to be an "appliance" when such terms as "etc." are 
>>> written
>>> into the rules.
>> Looks plain to me.  If you have a digital device used in *anything*
>>>> In the meantime, it would be very interesting to know whether a good
>>>> filter (common plus differential mode) on the line cord..."
>>> Not on my GE Harmony washer.  I tried an outboard ICE RFI filter on 
>>> the line
>>> cord and it had zero impact on RFI.    There's a lot more going on 
>>> inside a
>>> direct-drive washer that precludes total RFI abatement.  Large 
>>> inductive
>>> loops are used on the circumference of the washer's basin and these 
>>> are a
>>> source of direct RFI radiation.  And even if RFI could be reasonably
>>> mitigated, who wants to assume the risk of voiding their standard or
>>> extended warranties by modifying the appliance?
>>> I confronted GE's two design engineers on this matter.  They didn't 
>>> beat
>>> around the bush:  They emphatically stated they had no doubt the 
>>> washer was
>>> emitting RFI, built that their product was Part-15-exempt and as a
>>> manufacturer, they are under no further duty to mitigate the RFI.
>> No device like this is exempt. They either don't know, or are blowing
>> smoke, particularly when even electric fences, and door bells are 
>> covered.
>>> In my opinion, Sec. 15.103(d) should be completely removed from the 
>>> Rules.
>>> Paul, W9AC
>> I'd go back to the dealer which is the first thing I'd have tried even
>> before trying to remedy the problem with the washer and dryer, but
>> forewarned is now forearmed.  I wouldn't purchase any appliance without
>> the understanding that if it caused interference they'd be getting it
>> back.  Most any reputable dealer including the big box stores will do 
>> this.
>> 73
>> Roger (K8RI)
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