RFI
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [RFI] ebay line filters

To: rfi@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] ebay line filters
From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Reply-to: jim@audiosystemsgroup.com
Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2016 20:09:17 -0700
List-post: <rfi@contesting.com">mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
Hi Doug,

You're talking about 1) properly built equipment and 2) measurements in a lab.

The problem is that much (most?) equipment is NOT properly built -- the green wire SHOULD go to the shielding enclosure, the shielding enclosure of a filter integral to a product SHOULD be bonded to the shielding enclosure, a filter external to a product must have it's shielding enclosure bonded to the shielding enclosure of the product, and for that external filter, all three leads (phase, neutral, and green) must be "zero length" (that is, very short). What happens far too often is that the green wire goes to a trace on a circuit board that may or may not every see the shielding enclosure, and there is impedance between that connection to the circuit board and the shielding enclosure. There's also equipment where the green wire is insulated from the shielding enclosure by paint. All of these conditions put the green wire above the chassis by some amount, so if the product is noisy, that noise ends up on the green wire, which causes current on the green wire, which causes the noise to radiate.

Second, real world conditions are not like that test lab setup. The green wire can be pretty long, which makes it a more efficient radiator at RF. And those lab conditions aren't looking for radiation, they're looking for voltage between Phase and Neutral (which they call differential) and between Neutral and Ground (which they call Common Mode).

73, Jim K9YC

on Mon,8/15/2016 4:26 PM, Doug Powell wrote:
Good points,

It is indeed true that common mode noise is with reference to the green wire ground, 
but back at the measurement point and not the case of the filter. In the case if Mil 
Std filters this may be on a grounded sheet metal table.  In the case of European 
approvals this measurement point is on the floor of the semi-anechoic chamber 
‎and the test sample is 80 cm above on an insulated table. Establishing an RF 
ground up there is extremely difficult and gets worse as you go up in frequency. So, 
if you buy a filter approved to IEC, CISPR, or EN standards you are likely to get 
better results than one that is compliant with Mil Std.

All the best, Doug


   Original Message
From: Jim Brown
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 4:24 PM
To: rfi@contesting.com
Reply To: jim@audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] ebay line filters

On Mon,8/15/2016 6:49 AM, Doug Powell wrote:
One thing you should realize about line filters is they are optimized for conducted 
line emissions coming from the product where they are built in. This means the line / 
load labeling ‎will determine your best orientation for connection.
There's another MAJOR problem with commercial line filters -- most of
the trash conducted from equipment is on the GREEN WIRE, which goes
right past the filter. The specs for these filters CLAIM common mode
suppression, but what they're calling common mode is voltage between
neutral and ground. That's NOT what WE call common mode, and what WE
call common mode is what causes most RFI -- radiation from the power
conductors as a long wire antenna.

The most effective line filter for MF and HF radio is a common mode
choke formed by winding multiple turns around a #31 Fair-Rite ferrite
core, using the guidelines in k9yc.com/RFI-Ham.pdf for coax the same
size as the power cable. See Chapter Seven the "Choke Cookbook." Also
see http://nccc.cc/pdf/CQP-RFI2013-2.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

_______________________________________________
RFI mailing list
RFI@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi


_______________________________________________
RFI mailing list
RFI@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>