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Re: Topband: Mother of all ferrite common-mode coaxial chokes

To: <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Mother of all ferrite common-mode coaxial chokes
From: "ZR" <zr@jeremy.mv.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 21:21:33 -0400
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Brown" <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Cc: <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Mother of all ferrite common-mode coaxial chokes


> On 7/13/2012 12:09 PM, ZR wrote:
>> ** Since when is using an established procedure called not knowing how
>> to measure?
>
> When one does not understand (or take into account) the limitations of
> the measurement method.  The most common method of measuring Z at RF is
> an S11 measurement in a 50 ohm system. This method has the limitation
> that VERY small errors in the data, or VERY small calibration errors,
> result in HUGE errors in the result when the unknown impedance differs
> from the system impedance by more than about 5:1.  The chokes he (and I)
> were measuring have impedances on the order of 5,000 ohms, so an S11
> measurement will yield erroneous data.


Thats correct at UHF and up but what is the error you have actually measured 
at 1.8 MHz?

>
> Quoting from Wes Hayward on the subject of measuring high impedances:
>
> "It is also possible to measure an L or a C attached as a load on a
> bridge attached to the VNA.   This is termed a "reflection" measurement.
>      The results are similar and remain equally difficult.     The
> severe errors of this direct method are discussed in Agilent
> Applications note 1369-6.    Much better measurements are obtained when
> one uses a scheme called RF I-V where a radio frequency source is
> applied to an unknown impedance.   Then the current through the
> impedance and the voltage across it are both measured.   The vector
> ratio of the values is calculated to obtain a better complex impedance
> value.   This method is discussed in Agilent Applications Note 1369-2.
> <SNIP> N2PK has built his own version of the Agilent RF I-V scheme and
> has obtained much better data.



>From a quick glance thru that paper I dont see much benefit of RF I-V below 
about 100MHz. What am I missing here?


>
> Also see a brief discussion of RF-IV in
> http://sdr-kits.net/DG8SAQ/VNWA/VNWA_HELP.pdf  which is the manual for
> the software for DG8SAQ's Vector Network Analyzer, and which supports
> the N2PK RF-I-V fixture.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> _______________________________________________
> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
>
>
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