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Re: Topband: low inv-vee

To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: low inv-vee
From: Brian Pease <bpease2@myfairpoint.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 22:18:59 -0400
List-post: <mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Just for fun, I modeled a 160m low inverted-V in NEC4.2, using 4NEC2 to look at the patterns.  The apex was 15m up.  Each leg was 40.7m long with the ends 7.5m up.  It was fed with 300 Ohm open wire dropping vertically to 1m above the ground.  I fed it from a 300 Ohm source.   Directly under the antenna I created 36 radials 30m long in order to compare 3 different configurations.  I used Sommerfeld standard ground.  All wire was #14 bare copper.
1) the balanced, ungrounded, inverted-V.
2) The same antenna, but with a 1m wire connecting one side of the feedline to the ground plane to simulate a real unbalance. 3) The same antenna but with both sides of the feedline fed against the ground plane as a "T".

As expected, the results support vertical radiators, and balance in the inverted-V

                             Vertical radiation off the ends
_Antenna                 of the inv-V at 30 degrees el Radiation Efficiency                 Comments_ 1) Balanced inv-V -8.8dBi                                 7.03% Total radiation pattern (H + V) is omni but with vertical nulls off the sides. 2) Unbalanced inv-V -11dBi                                  3.95% Total radiation pattern is omni, low angle vertical is also omni. 3) Inv-V used as "T" +1.4dBi                                38.4% Peak radiation at 30 degrees el, mostly vertical, -2.8dB nulls off the sides.

On 3/29/2018 10:11 AM, K4SAV wrote:
If you run a NEC analysis it will show that a 160 dipole at a half wavelength height will blow away any vertical when the signal is broadside to the dipole.  The people that have tried this say it aint so.  At least some of the reasons are that NEC knows nothing about 160 propagation and it knows nothing about the effect of Earth's electron gyrofrequency.  That varies a lot depending on where you are located on this earth. Analysis is nice and easy but you have to include everything for it to simulate the real world, and the real world on 160 is very complicated.

Jerry, K4SAV


On 3/28/2018 9:50 PM, Mark K3MSB wrote:
I don't think so.  In my Electromagnetic Fields and Waves class in EE
school (way back when dinosaurs just stopped roaming the earth and
Constellations still graced the skies...) the prof derived the equation for
a received signal.  The polarization terms disappeared after the first
ionospheric bounce.

73 Mark K3MSB


On Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 9:03 PM Steve Maki <lists@oakcom.org> wrote:

Interesting. Some say that on 160 vertical polarization rules, while on
80, horizontal polarization rules (or at least *often* rules). Of course
polarization and angle of arrival are two different things...

-Steve K8LX

On 03/28/18 17:23 PM, Roger Kennedy wrote:

Well I've said it before and I'll doubtless say it again . . .

In my experience, most DX propagation on 160m ISN'T low angle  (unlike
80m
when it nearly always IS.)

For the past 45 years, at several different QTHs I've always used a
horizontal co-ax fed halfwave dipole, only 50ft high . . . I'm sure most people would agree I put a respectable DX signal.  I've regularly worked
all
over the world on Top band, and I've never had trouble getting through
pile-ups to work Dx-peditions.

Plus a dipole at 40 feet will never really be an inverted vee ! (just a horizontal antenna with drooping ends) - You'd have to have the centre at
least 100ft high for it to be an inverted vee.

Roger G3YRO
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